S04E10 – Cultural Stigma – Dr. Neelam Laxhman

0:00 – Ali Khawaja

Hey guys, welcome back. Yes, I know, I’m doing real good this season, right? You’re getting, you’re getting episodes on schedule. Well, kind of almost on schedule. Ish. It’s better than a six month break or a year break. So yeah, we’re doing good. We’re doing good. I’m trying to keep on top of stuff so, you know, hopefully it keeps on a good roll. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ve got a wonderful guest with me today. She has just gotten to the UAE a handful of months ago. So, you know, fresh lamb to the slaughter. Nah, that’s messing with you. So welcome to the uae. Your first big summer here. That’s a tough one for first timers, but once you kind of grasp that, smooth sailing. But let’s move to the reason why we’re here. So guys, part of what we do here with the mental health AE is bring wonderful people in just to have conversations to understand a little bit of perspective, like how do they see the world and what’s the sort of impact they’re creating. I’m going to ask my guest to introduce herself. 

1:11 – Neelam Laxhman

Thank you. So I’m Dr. Neelam Laxman, I’m a clinical psychologist, as you just said. I’ve just moved here recently to the uae, Dubai specifically. I was born in UK and that’s where I trained. My doctor training was done in UK and I worked for the NHS and in private practice and more recently I now work with compassionate minds in Motor City. 

1:31 – Ali Khawaja

Well, fantastic. Welcome, welcome to the region. So, you know, part of what we were discussing before we started recording was why we started mental health ae. And this was six, seven years now ago. And the purpose was just to start creating dialogue and conversation amongst people. I was blessed to have a mom that I could sit at her dinner table and literally ask anything, anything under the sun that popped in my head. I could ask a question, judgment free, support answers. And when she didn’t have an answer, she’d help me find resources for those answers. I realized probably high school, college, that wasn’t the norm for a lot of families, a lot of households. And again, because the region, we are in a big portion of the Middle east, of Africa, South Asia, Southeast Asia, these things are very much taboo and heavily, heavily stigmatized, even to the point that it’s just now we’re starting to see data come out of these places and even the data is not, I don’t want to oversimplify, but the data is not deep and there’s not a lot of historic data also to kind of see if there’s a trend or a shift or with what’s going on. And it’s still stigmatized. Every conversation I’ve had, and I’ve had thousands at this point with people, we used to do a lot of peer to peer support group type of stuff. It’s still heavily stigmatized. I talk to young people all the time. I teach at a university, so I’m surrounded by 18 to 22 year olds my whole life. That part hasn’t changed. A lot has changed in, you know, I’ve been at University now 27 years. I’ve seen a lot shift culturally, a lot of things shift. And the way I teach is very multicultural. So I’m not just giving you one slice of one culture, but across the spectrum. What’s been your experience? You know, now that you’ve come here, you’ve had a fresh look, are you finding things different or the same to how you were practicing in the uk? 

3:39 – Neelam Laxhman

I’ll say the practice feels the same compared to when it was, you know, when I was practicing in the uk And I guess that kind of makes me think about, well, why did I, why did I decide to be a clinical psychologist? Why this career? Why not something else that’s like in the, you know, helping sort of career elsewhere I could have chosen to do? And I think it’s about what gives me purpose. So the thing that I noticed growing up is that like yourself, I was very, I’m very fortunate that I have a family that I can go and speak to and you know, around the dinner table, we’re having these really important, deep sort of conversations and that’s very normalized. It’s okay to have these conversations. But one thing that I noticed is when I was going to like A and E or gps and other sort of clinics and places is that where are the people that look like me? Why are they not the people who are psychologists or psychiatrists or even GPs, for example? So for me, that made me think, well, if it was my mom or anybody else in my family, friends who needed to seek any kind of support, would they feel comfortable and confident enough to go and do that? Because thinking about stigma, yes, we have stigma internally as well, but what about society? So, you know, are there people that reflect our values and how we’ve been raised and our thinking in these important, powerful, powerful positions in society that we can go to? Because initially I think that that says something. That’s what was saying, know it’s safe, it’s okay, it’s okay to be from a South Asian background or whatever and have these needs and to come to us and talk to us about it. 

5:13 – Ali Khawaja

I think. I think you got it right on. And that’s also been a gap that I noticed in my research when I was looking into the North American European market. Also, the data is. It’s not technically selective, it’s just selective by lack of participation, which automatically tells you it’s skewed. Right. You know, when this is back to basics, basic statistics and math, when we want to do a sample of a population, it should be a representative sample, not just the people interested to talk to me, we’re missing massive chunks of the population. And even when you look at immigrant families, and this is also another thing that I’ve. It’s very funny being in the uae, you find families from South Asia and whatnot who have immigrated and they are now maybe even second or third generation, but that cultural drama has carried irrespective of where they were born and where they were grown up. So I found that still to be kind of heavy and very, very, very kind of difficult to kind of get through. What’s been your experience here now in the uae? 

6:24 – Neelam Laxhman

Well, I’ve only really been here for sort of five, six months, and with the situation that we’ve kind of had more recently with like the big changes and people kind of leaving, people coming a bit later and so forth, I think there’s a real need, there is such a need in the UAE for mental health support, even having conversations, but also knowing who to go to. And I feel like, for me, that’s been the biggest thing. So in uk, for example, it’s quite easy to, like, Google. We have the NHS service, we know who can go to, you see the gp, and there’s a pretty straightforward process. Yeah, with here, I feel that it’s a little bit more complex. It’s. Who do you go to? What do all these titles mean? What’s the difference between a psychologist and a counselor or a coach, for example? And what’s it going to be like, you know, when you think about psychiatry or psychology, is it going to be somebody with a white lab coat that you go and see that’s a little bit sort of cut off, you know, so what’s that experience going to be like for me? And for me, I think, you know, having those conversations, seeing people, social media, going online, seeing what that might be like, is incredibly important. So I think accessibility is definitely key, being able to understand that. 

7:39 – Ali Khawaja

It’s been my experience the same, exactly the same, you know, and we Were talking about this before we started recording. You know, nine out of ten DMS that we get or people reach out to us on our platforms. They’re asking basically for referrals. I got this going on. I don’t know what to do or like, sorry, not what to do. I don’t know who to go see or I meet somebody in this, but I don’t know where to look. And you know, an open Google platform can be very overwhelming. We used to have nothing available. Now it’s way too much available. And then there’s complications on top of that with costs. Will insurance cover it? Will insurance not cover it? And then that person is already sitting there thinking, I’m the one who’s creating this problem. I’m the one who’s the troublesome person. Because when you’re not talking about it, you isolate. And then you think you’re the only one dealing with this. And everybody else is just living a perfect life because go look at their Instagrams. They’re living a perfect life. That’s like the best of the best and edited showreel of their lives. Nobody’s posted up. I’m having a bad day. You know, here’s me with my hair looking like a mess. Well, I don’t have that problem. I’ve grown past it or ungrown past it. And that’s what we do. So, you know, in all these years, the people we’ve met, we’ve kind of, without realizing, we’ve kind of created a, like a very decent sized network of people that we know or people that we know who know people. I had a mom reach out to me. This was I think three, four months ago. And she goes, can I get on a call? And usually I don’t do that. But then she had explained part of the story with her child and I’m like, sure. So I got on a call with her. I said, listen first, please understand, I am not a medical professional. I need to be very clear. I teach, I’m an academic, I do a whole bunch of other stuff, consulting, advisory. I also do coaching. What you’re talking to me about is outside all of those things. I’m happy to listen to you just so maybe I can help you find the right resource. And that’s exactly what happened. She was having trouble with her second or third kid, behavioral issues. And I said, look, I don’t know who I can recommend for this, but I know the person who for sure will know. So let me go talk to her. She’s a good friend. She’s in the industry. If, with your permission, I can discuss this with her, if she says okay, can I then share your contact information? She will reach out. I got a call a day later, she goes, oh my God, who is this person? She’s such a godsend. She knew exactly what I was going through. And she goes, I’ve got two people to recommend to you. Talk to this person first, then talk to this person and get the ball moving. So this is literally why we started the initiative. So finding the right resource, I think is definitely a big part of the problem. The other part of the problem, which we also faced very early on when we built out the platform and we actually literally have a page on our platform, like what’s the difference between a therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist, like we have a page to help people understand. Because if you’re not in the industry, you don’t get it. You don’t get it. And then a lot of these professions have like huge taboo associated. You went to see a psychologist, oh, something must be going on, right? Well, yeah, something’s going on. I mean, I got a toothache, I see a dentist. Right. You don’t judge me for that. So we still do have the judgment type of stuff. I want to pivot the conversation a little bit to the user’s perspective. So if somebody’s got something going on and they don’t have exact clarity on what’s going on in their head, and they’re not obviously not sure what type of help that they would potentially need, where can they start in order to navigate and then ultimately get to the right resource? 

11:29 – Neelam Laxhman

That’s a really important question because I think there’s a lot of people out there that think something doesn’t quite feel right, something feels a bit different or perhaps a little off with me. And that’s, that’s the key thing, that’s the starting point, is recognizing that actually I’m starting to feel a bit different and now it’s starting to affect my relationships, how I feel about other people, how I feel about myself, my day to day life, my work, university, whatever it might be. Right. So being able to recognize that you’re already started that journey. Yeah. Once you’ve started to recognize that, have that conversation, think where is it that I can go to seek help? And as I mentioned earlier, you know, using online platforms, perhaps speaking to family, friends, if you’re a university student or going to college, like speaking to parents or perhaps speaking to lecturers and counselors, that you say, right, I’m feeling this way, what Is it that you recommend? Is there someone that you think I could go and see? And then being, you know, that’s a really brave step, first step to say, actually I think I need help. Yeah. What is it that I can do about how I’m feeling right now? Being able to take that level of control for yourself. And then once someone’s been able to make a recommendation, thinking, right. So, you know, that can feel a bit scary, like walking into a clinic and thinking, right, they’re going to ask me all these sort of questions about myself and my journey and so forth. You know, just say, can I have a telephone consultation with you first and have an opportunity to get to know what that person might be like before you actually meet with them physically? And just seeing, is this a good fit for me? You know, if I was to go in and spend 50 minutes with this person, will I feel confident? Will I feel safe? Will I feel okay to talk about myself in that time? 

13:07 – Ali Khawaja

I like that. I think, thanks. Thanks a lot. That gives a lot of clarity. You know, one of the other issues that we always have when people are looking for stuff or I’ve run into when trying to help people navigate this process. Well, the obvious big one that we just talked about is recognizing and then kind of nudging yourself that saying, okay, I need to find somebody that I need the right help with. One of the other problems that I’ve always had to advise people on is finding a fit. Whether it’s a therapist or whatever mental health professional, there needs to be a fit. You know, this is exactly the same in terms of you working with a nutritionist or you working with a gym trainer. They have different styles or a coach even. They have different styles, they have different approaches, some will sync with you and you will be a lot more comfortable. But they feel like they go to the first one, things don’t click and they’re like, oh, I can’t do this. What would be perhaps a more step wise or a better approach for them to kind of navigate that part of the process when they’re trying to find the match? You know, I always sound like guys like shopping around, but it seems awkward when you tell them to go shop around for a doctor. 

14:21 – Neelam Laxhman

Yeah, yeah. I would say just be honest in the session. So if you have met with somebody and actually you feel like they’re not quite understanding you, it’s not quite what you’re trying to tell them. Just be honest and say, actually this isn’t what I’m trying to say. This is how I Feel and I’m not quite sure whether this will be a good fit. And any good therapist or a psychologist will ask you that at the end of your session, say, how do you think this went? Do you feel like this was a good fit? That’s the opportunity to just be open and honest. And usually, you know, they shouldn’t be taking offense to that. They would say, well actually, thank you so much for letting me know. How about so and so perhaps this will be a better approach for you. So off the back of that they’ll be able to recommend somebody else that might be a better fit for you. 

15:02 – Ali Khawaja

I think that’s, that’s very apt. And something similar that I do in my coaching. So about 6ish years ago, I pivoted my coaching to be a little bit more ADHD specific. I just realized that I was working with, you know, people who were ADHD and very close friend of mine also, and I started to understand all that stuff better. And then that allowed me to coach people who had adhd. Very high performing, top level executives, you know, entrepreneurs making crazy money, working and thinking like you can’t even imagine how complex their brains are and the way they see things. It’s amazing. I’m always excited about it. Sorry for the tangent, but in that onboarding conversation that I have, I literally tell them, I’m like, look, this coaching coachee relationship will not work if we’re not a good fit. So first, I don’t want you to feel apprehensive or shy to tell me because not only do I want you to tell me, I want you to also tell me not why I’m not a good fit. That’s not as relevant to what are you looking for in someone who would be a better fit. And guess what, I could probably recommend somebody because we know each other, coaches will know each other. And then similarly in your professions, you know each other and you can say, you know what, wait a second, I think for the style and whatever you need, you need to be more with this one. And then, I mean, almost every single time I can see a sense of relief in their face. And then a lot of times they’ll be like, really? I’m like a thousand percent. I’m not going to be offended. I will be happy because I’m not doing this, you know, not to help you. The purpose behind me doing what I’m doing as this particular role as a coach is to help you get access to the best thing that you need. And I recognize that I’m not necessarily that person to provide you with what you need. So I think. Excellent, very rightfully put. Talk to me a little bit more. Let’s kind of. Let’s kind of drill like another layer down. Talk to me a little bit about what you’re seeing, not necessarily in the UAE per se, but what are you seeing that’s happening in the last, let’s say, two years, three years with the young people in this generation? We’ve been constantly told too much screen time, too much this time. Social, antisocial, this data, that data. But at the end of the day, the reality, what I say is the proof is in the pudding. The reality is what you’re seeing with clients. Is there a shift? Are they dealing with things that previous generations were not dealing with? 

17:39 – Neelam Laxhman

I think the biggest shift that I’ve seen recently in my practice over the last few years is a level of anxiety, particularly in young children and teens. The level of anxiety is just increasing over time. And I think that so much of that is because of things like social media. Right. So you spoke about this briefly before. You spoke about, you know, you know, the perfect life. Everybody seems to have everything put together, you know, everything shiny, bright out there. Why don’t I have that? And then this constant being on this hamster wheel, almost like you’re having to be performing all the time to be the best. So whether that’s at school and getting the best grades at school, because if you don’t do that, then it means that you’re not good enough or you’re failure or whatever that might be. And thinking that if I stop, if I stop performing, then I’m going to be left behind. And inevitably, of course, that’s going to increase your anxiety because you’re never able to kind of step back and take a bit of time out for yourself and do the things that you do enjoy, but in fact find yourself sort of being pushed or molded into doing something that you feel like society wants you to do. 

18:44 – Ali Khawaja

Yeah, I’m sensing that, too. And again, I teach university students, so I have a very, very narrow snapshot in terms of the age range. But I. You’re right, I’m seeing a lot of anxiety and stress. I might not have the best sample because my students are always stressed with exams and quizzes and assignments. But I hear what you’re saying. What can we do differently? Well, that’s two questions. Let me split it. What can the young person do differently? And then what can the parent do differently to help their child? 

19:19 – Neelam Laxhman

I think the most important thing is what is the Conversation at home, where does pressure come from? So does it come from family? Is mom and dad saying, you know, you must get these grades, you know, you must perform, you must do this, or is it coming from school? And then I guess if I can start with the parents just having those open and honest conversations with the child. What’s going on at school? What’s going on in your social life? How much time are you spending on your phone, on social media, doom scrolling, whatever it is, and having to think about, is this impacting you? And in what way is this impacting you? Is it affecting your sleep? Is it affecting your appetite? Is it affecting your mood? Are you more isolated? Are you starting to notice that actually they’re starting to spend a lot more time by themselves in their room? What’s that about? What’s going on? So being sort of mindful and open and curious about any behavior change that they’re starting to notice. And as for the child or the teen being able to recognise, as I said earlier, that actually I’m starting to feel a bit different, there’s a shift in how I’m feeling. I’m starting to notice that I’m feeling a bit more sad, I’m a bit more tearful or, or that, you know, anxiety is often quite physical. So you might start to notice that you’re shaking or sweating or your heart’s racing a lot more. Speak to somebody and say, you know, go to your mum, go to your dad and say something feels really off, something doesn’t feel right. And I think I might be struggling and then together thinking about, well, what might that be? Might be causing that? You know, is it school, is it friendships? What is that? Where does it come from? 

20:50 – Ali Khawaja

Okay, I hear you. And what can the young person do differently? Because there’s a lot of peer pressure. You know, I’ve been told by both my kids that I’m the weird parent compared to all of their friends parents. Because I would, my daughter’s in her third year college now and I would tell her when she was doing her GCSEs and A levels and she’d be stressing out. She stresses out during the exam. She’s one of those. She’d be stressing out. I’m like, why are you stressed out? Oh boy, about to cry. And then cry is also. Then I’m like, okay, what’s the problem? Just skip the exam. What? 

21:23 – Neelam Laxhman

What? 

21:23 – Ali Khawaja

I’m like, what’s the big deal? Don’t do the exam, you know, drop out of high school. What I’m like, take a gap here, chill out. None of this stress is worth your health. Come on. And you’ll be like, baba, you just weird. Yeah, all my friends, parents are on their case. Study harder, study harder. And you’re the opposite. You’re not helping me. I’m like, no, kid, I am helping you. Take it from the guy who’s been in academia for 27 years. You know, my son, he just finished high school like two weeks ago. He’s still not 100% clear on college plans. He’s applied, he’s thinking, he’s into the culinary stuff. So he might pivot there and pivot here. And, you know, I’ve got family members stressing out. Well, what’s Abdullah’s plan? I’m like, I don’t know. What do you mean you don’t know? Deadlines have passed. And this and this. I’m like, because maybe he takes a gap year or a gap semester or whatever. Why are you all in such a hurry to educate my child? Relax. So it’s again, I find myself to be the odd one from other parents also when I kind of push that thing. So he’s kind of relaxed. He’s got friends who are very stressed out. Their parents are stressed out. They’re waiting for certain colleges to come back to them with scholarship information. And I don’t know what, and I don’t know what. And my son’s just chilling a little too much, according to my wife. But he’s just chilling and I’m relaxed. She goes, why aren’t you worried? I’m like, what’s the problem? I’m like, you think if he takes a gap here, he’s going to sit in the house and bum around? No, no, no. That is not acceptable. He’ll do something, not sit at home, but that something doesn’t have to be college today. What’s the point of going to college for a year? Just to realize you’re doing the wrong thing and then change. You just spent the year in stress. Why? So again, I think I’m the odd one out when it comes to parents. I do try to talk to my friends who are parents. I’m like, guys, please chill. Please relax. The world will not end. What are you in a competition for again? What we talked about earlier with Instagram, life is not a highlight reel, but that’s unfortunately what you see. And I really think it’s a disservice to young people, kids, school going kids, when parents put unacceptable pressure on them. And again, we have global data on this Suicide rates in different countries with kids who just he or she tried their best and didn’t pass that exam or didn’t get that admission. And then it’s sad, it’s sad. Tell me, tell me a little bit more on. And again, like, open on your perspective. What can these teens and these young people, you know, closer they get to the high school, the stress builds up because it’s like critical. You do good, you get into good college, you get to good college, you set up for life, you do bad, you’re a bum on the street. That’s kind of. The parents make it very awkwardly binary. What can they do to kind of either alleviate this type of pressure? And sometimes like, for example, for me, my kids don’t have pressure for me. And I make sure that nobody else in the family gives them any type of pressure, but they have peer pressure. So they’re like, what do you mean you’re not going to study for that? Of course you have to study for exam. Why are all of us being stressed out and studying hard? You should also stress out and study hard. They feel left out from the anxiety. So anything, you know, that these guys, 

24:54 – Neelam Laxhman

the kids can do, continue doing the things that you love. And I think that’s really important is being able to have something to fall back on. So if you are at school and you’ve had this peer pressure and you’re feeling really, really stressed, instead of going home and then thinking about it, ruminating and thinking, this is what I should be doing, why am I not doing this? Putting that pressure on yourself, try and shift that. What can you control in the moment? And you know, you do the things that you can control, but there’s things that you can’t control as well. So you can control the amount of revision that you do, for example. But when you sit the exam, when you’re actually in the exams, there’s not much you can control in that moment. So think about the things that you can control and don’t forget to have some fun along the way. So doing the things that you actually enjoy. So whether that’s being creative, whether that’s gaming, whatever it might be, but to not lose a part of yourself in that journey, because it always, as I said, it’s like a hamster. Well, there’ll always be the next thing. You finish high school, we think about a level, then about university, then you think about job. But try not to lose that part of you on that journey. 

25:57 – Ali Khawaja

Oh, I’m going to put a pin in that big time. Here’s My issue with it, I agree with you, but this is textbook easier said than done. All I see kids doing now to alleviate from that anxiety cloud is bury themselves in Snapchat and TikTok and Insta and that type of stuff. That’s an easy exit even for parents because that’s like the, you know, the free babysitter. There you go. And I’ve seen kids give, I’ve seen parents give toddlers iPads as pacifiers. I’m like, guys, do you not understand what you’re doing? Oh, bro, I’m just so tired. I’m like, yeah, welcome to being a parent your whole life. You will be tired. Get over it. You know, you need to step up. But you know, that pacifier approach has been instilled into this generation and they will just kind of drown themselves in this constant doom scrolling and if you say, okay, do something other than screen time. And now they don’t know what to do. Yeah, how can they get, I don’t know how to phrase this. How can they do more old school stuff? You know, when I was growing up, the Internet hadn’t even shown up. And then it eventually showed up, but by that time we were very comfortable doing other things, you know, creative things. When the weather was. I grew up in Saudi when the weather allowed outdoor things, things even inside the house, working on one project or the other or creating something with our hands. I’m not seeing that. You know, I, I make it a point in the winters here to always go off roading or camping or, you know, just desert and cook there. And we just sit and just have a good time. And my son’s been doing it with me since he was like, since he could walk. So I mean, he would grumble on like, blah, blah. I’m like, pack the truck. Oh, it’s too heavy. I’m like, I’ll help you, but pack the truck. You know, and then when we’re there, help clean up. And he would grumble, why doesn’t everybody else clean up? I’m like, because they ain’t my kid. You my kid. You know, three, four days ago, him and 15 of his buddies were out in the desert. It was a little warm, but you know, it’s end of the year before everybody goes off to college. And they cooked, they, they smoked like, I don’t know, 10, 20 chickens and I don’t know, like ridiculous amounts of food. And I wasn’t there. No other parent was there. They didn’t. And he took care of all of it. And he was telling his friends, okay, you need to do this, you need to do this. And none of his friends knew how to do any of it because their parents haven’t taken the time out to do, you know, that particular activity. Now I’m not saying they’re not doing anything with them. I’ve got one of my son’s friends, they go golf like thrice a week. So I mean a handful of things that I’m seeing but not a lot. So is this something that can be tackled more from the child themselves or are we still talking about pushing the parent to be more actively involved and on non screen related activities? 

28:57 – Neelam Laxhman

So ultimately, I guess from a young age, obviously a lot of that responsibility is on the parent, right? So getting them involved, like yourself, like with your son, getting your kids involved, doing things, even if it’s something as simple as washing the dishes, doing it together, being in the kitchen together, having a conversation, making it fun. So that’s a way of kind of distracting them from watching TV or being on the phone or whatever it might be. But also as the child grows, you know, the parent might notice that actually they want to spend a bit more time by themselves. You know, they want to be in their room, they don’t want to speak to mum and dad, they want to be on their phone or speaking to their friends. But then perhaps using that and gently encouraging them, you know, why don’t you spend, let’s have dinner together, yeah, let’s sit at the table together, let’s have a conversation, we’ll clear up the plates together. Finding those ways when you’re at home, the simple chores to get them involved in doing tasks or things together, doing the gardening together, whatever it might be, but encouraging them, but also showing them that, you know, hey, I’m here, I want to spend time with you, I’m here for you. So no matter what’s happening in their lives, they know that you, you know, parents are stable, they’re there. So even if I am to like, you know, excuse myself for a while, I know that when I come back my parents are going to be there and I can kind of pick off, pick up where I left off, which is so important. Having that safe sort of foundation for the child and allowing that child to kind of go and explore, think about what is, what is it that they like, what is it that they dislike and being able to come back some mum, dad, whoever might be in the family, but also for children as well, just, you know, when they, when they are grown up thinking about, well, what are the things that interest you? Having those conversations? What are your hobbies? What kind of things do you like doing? And then encouraging that. So it might be doing extra activities after school or perhaps finding other parents and children of similar ages and trying to get them to kind of get together and do things together. There’s certainly ways that you can do that. But as long as it feels like safe and okay for the child to do that, rather than feeling quite pressured into doing something that they dislike because then there’s more chance of them completely disengaging from doing anything. 

31:09 – Ali Khawaja

Yeah, that’s tricky. That’s tricky. You know, I’ve got a lot of, a lot of friends with kids of different ages. I was just talking to a buddy of mine. He’s got kids who are like, I’ve gotten to a point where I tell you, kids, by his height, I’m like, yeah, kids are about yay big. So I’m gonna say that there’s kids that are between 3 and 10 maybe, because, you know, once your kids get old, you forget what size they’re supposed to be at what age. Anyhow, so let’s say 3 and 10. And he was telling me about a new activity that he started with his kids yesterday. And I was like, excellent, excellent. He goes, why are you so excited about it? I’m like, it’s a non screen activity. I love non screen activities. I don’t see them. I remember a time growing up we weren’t big on this in our family. I remember a time growing up where my friends and, you know, they’re like in their houses, they would have board game night like, you know, once, whatever, like Taco Tuesday. And you know, then this night is board game night. We never had like a weekly board game night, but every now and then we would like play some board games. So I don’t have this with my kids. Also, we don’t have a set board game night, but we do have, you know, mandated family time. And by mandated family time, again, I think I’m very blessed. Alhamdulillah. My parents live 10 minutes from my house. My wife’s parents live like 20 minutes from my house. So my kids have grown up with all of Mashallah, all of their grandparents around them, in and out of the house all the time. You know, my mom and dad come in and out of the house. I don’t even need to know when they’re coming or going. And then the kids are going to their other grandma’s house on this day or that day. And oh my God, you You guys carry your relationships with your grandparents. I don’t. I don’t need to handhold you. Right? It’s not like a lot of other. Fortunately for me, but a lot of my friends and a lot of people that I know who are. Who are expats in the country, their kids only get to see their grandparents when they go back to the homeland. And I keep telling my kids, I’m like, guys, you need to, like, actively think about how lucky you are. How many of your friends have grandparents in the country? They’re like, maybe one. I’m like, okay, so it’s a huge blessing that you have access to them. That also disconnects them, that gets them to do something with their grandparents. And you know, my mom and dad, they’re so funny sometimes. They’re like, they’re outside the house. They’ll call me. Where’s Zohar Abdullah? I don’t know. Call them on their phones. I’m like, they’re not babies. But oh, no. I called, not answering. I’m like, let me go look. I’m like, abdullah, where are you? Oh, why? I’m Grandma, Grandpa are outside. Okay, we’re going where? We’re going shopping. For what? None of your business. I got none of your business. I’m like, okay, go have fun. Enjoy it. So I think it’s very. It has to be very purposeful. It needs to be kind of actively put into schedule, so to speak. But that gets hard. That gets really hard. And then, you know, this constant pressure. As soon as the kids start to get older, there’s this constant pressure to go hang out at this coffee shop and hang out at that coffee shop and hang out at this place and hang out at that place. That also gets very overwhelming. You know, even. Even. I know a lot of parents, the biggest discussion they have in their households or not discussions, but point of conflict with their kids is curfew. Why can’t I have a 2am curfew? My friend has a 2am curfew. Or why can’t I have a this curfew? My friend has a this. And if I was in college, like somewhere else in the planet, you wouldn’t even have a curfew. You wouldn’t even know when I’m going out. And I’m like, guys, I don’t need that type of sass. You’re living in Baba’s house. Baba’s rule. Suck it up. So sometimes I got to put my foot down. But this is the same conversation I’m hearing from other parents. Also right. Not just me, it gets, it gets, it gets difficult. So now we’re kind of at the tail end of our conversation. I want to hear a little bit more from you about what sort of stuff that you do, the services that you can provide, what sort of things that you can help people with and if they reach out to you, like what’s what. 

35:16 – Neelam Laxhman

So I’m a clinical psychologist, as I said, I’m at Compassionate Minds, which is in Motor City and I work with adults, adolescents and I also offer couples therapy as well as ADHD assessments. And in thinking about how I work and what I offer, it’s mostly sort of working with people who are facing difficulties in terms of their day to day life. So whether that’s sort of anxiety, whether that’s low mood, some people with eating disorders as well, grief, challenges with their identity, any struggles like that, thinking about how can we make sense of those difficulties together? So what’s your narrative and what’s your experience of these challenges and how can I support you in processing those difficulties and guide you in getting you to a place where you’re no longer as affected as you are as you walk in on your first session to see me? So it’s very collaborative. We work together and we have a goal in mind and we think about how together can we work towards that goal where you’re in a better place and ultimately functioning a lot better as well. 

36:21 – Ali Khawaja

That’s wonderful. I’m going to take the opportunity to do a tiny tangent and that’s just because I’m very heavy on the ADHD coaching part. One of the problems that I’ve noticed is the rise in self diagnostics of it. People are kind of just filling out a 10 question quiz online and like, oh man, I’m ADHD and I have to keep reminding them. I’m like, maybe, but you need to get a professional assessment very shortly. Can you walk me through what a professional assessment would look like? 

36:57 – Neelam Laxhman

So thinking about a professional ADHD assessment. Yes. I’ve seen quite a few people who go on Google and say, I’ve done this sort of checklist and it seems like I’ve got adhd. Please don’t self diagnose, go and see a professional who’s trained in completing the ADHD assessments. Generally, just talking about the process of these assessments, you know, some clinics or some therapists might offer sort of a telephone consultation to get some background history. So what’s going on? Why do you think that you might meet the criteria for an ADHD diagnosis? What’s been going on, what, what’s difficult for you? What kind of symptoms are showing up day to day? What was it like for you as a kid growing up, particularly before the age of 12? So one of the clinical diagnostic interviews that some clinicians may use is specifically looking at what was it like for you in terms of hyperactivity and so forth before the ages of 12 and as an adult as well, there’ll be some tests that you would do, sort of looking at your attention and so forth, working memory and that. And then once you’ve completed all those tests, the clinician will go away and write up a full comprehensive report to help you understand what’s going on. Yeah. And hopefully able to answer if you do meet the criteria, you know, why you’ve been feeding a certain way, why have things been quite difficult for you, and to offer you some recommendations that can help support you going forward. 

38:17 – Ali Khawaja

Fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. Okay, where can everybody find you? Let’s do the plug. 

38:22 – Neelam Laxhman

So you can find me at compassionatemind in Motor City, which is a lovely clinic in Motor City. We have child therapists and clinical psychologists and psychotherapists there. 

38:33 – Ali Khawaja

Yeah, fantastic. And guys, as usual, somewhere top, bottom, left, wherever, depending on where you’re watching or hearing this, I’ll share the insta links, web links and all of that wonderful stuff. Thank you so much for taking the time and come talking to everybody. Every conversation hopefully leads to somebody thinking and then leads to somebody helping either themselves or somebody else. So, you know, as Rumi says, you are not a drop in the ocean, but an ocean in the drop. So thank you so much. 

39:04 – Neelam Laxhman

Thank you so much for inviting me. Thank you.