S03E06 – The Healers – Ray

00:05
Ali
Hey everybody, welcome back. Another episode and I’ve got Ray here with me today. We’ve got some interesting things that we’re going to be discussing a lot.

00:13
Ray
Very interesting.

00:15
Ali
For sure, for sure. All right, I think let’s just jump into it. The conversation that we’re going to be having is a continuation of a conversation that we’ve already had in the past. We spent a lot of time discussing our life’s experiences and the people we’ve met and the things that we’ve seen and things that we’ve gone through. So the topic today is very interesting. It’s kind of like the other side of the fence for many people. We always talk about mental health and wellness from the perspective of the people receiving or needing. We never really talk about the people who are out there, who are the givers, who are the healers. So today’s discussion is going to kind of focus on the healers that we have around the world. And these are the people that are your go to people, the people who are your rock.

01:00
Ali
But at the end of the day, they’re still people. So who’s taking care of them, where do they go? Type of situations. And I’ve always been asked like, oh, you’re ali for so many people, but who’s your ali? And I’m like, no one. No one. So good. Let’s jump into it. Quick intros, please.

01:20
Ray
Of course, rahaf. People call me Ray. I’m the founder of Fraser Mental Health and I raise awareness on mental health, especially when it comes to men. My mission is to bridge the gap between awareness and action. And I’m one of those people you’re talking about.

01:39
Ali
Fantastic. So let’s talk a little bit about who these healers are. Let’s try and spend a little bit of time to identify who these people are. How do I know who the healers are?

01:50
Ray
Great question. So there are plenty of terms. Healers is the common term that people use these days, but it’s basically called light workers. A light worker is someone who is dedicated to serve humanity, who knows what pain is, emotional pain, who went through a lot and they just made it their mission to light the way for others to help people. Those are what we call healers. Every person who chooses this path, like a therapist, a teacher, a psychologist, a mental health coach, there are healers. And they come with a lot of emotional maturity and strength and sensitivity. So you can tell by a person’s sensitivity that they are healers. And sometimes they are not aware of it. They don’t know that they are healers or light workers. They come to realize that at a later stage.

02:59
Ali
Is this only professionals? Or this can just be like regular.

03:03
Ray
People also because they could be regular people. Okay, so these are the people who are great in listening, who are great in seeing the other side of any situation or story. They are people who cry when they see an emotional video, who can relate to other people. Yeah. It doesn’t have to be a profession, but most of them, they choose that profession or let me correct that, the profession chooses them. They become healers.

03:33
Ali
Yeah, I like what you said there. The profession chooses them. And it makes a lot of sense.

03:36
Ray
Because it chose me. I didn’t choose it. That’s why I keep highlighting it that sometimes it chooses you.

03:42
Ali
I hear you on that. And even my path to where I am today has been very much similar. I keep joking about this and I talk about things very lightly, but the reality is that again, same advice I give people, I take to myself also. Right. And it’s just one of those things that I walk the path that is before me and the path keeps unfolding in some direction and it seems more often than not that direction is something that is something I might have would have chosen had I known. But I don’t know before the path starts. Right. Life’s been a very interesting journey. It has ups and downs. Right. But there’s so much fulfillment and purpose that kind of has found me over the years, if that’s the right way to put it. You mentioned something about they have a high level of emotional intelligence.

04:37
Ali
They’re able to see, they’re able to feel high level of empathy. Would that also be correct to say?

04:43
Ray
Yes. There are the people who, when they enter a room, they would know by its energy. How is it?

04:52
Ali
I love that you said that because a lot of times and I’ve experienced this, I would walk into a room and I just get this feeling inside and I’ve never been able to kind of quantify it.

05:04
Ray
You won’t be able if somebody tells.

05:05
Ali
Me to explain how do you know? I’m like, I don’t know.

05:08
Ray
I know even the term healer, there’s no scientific proof of what a healer is.

05:13
Ali
Yes.

05:16
Ray
They enter a room, like, for example, me, I know when I enter a room if I want to be in it or not in 5 seconds.

05:24
Ali
Oh, very much the same.

05:25
Ray
In 5 seconds I know if you’re good for my energy or not. And I can tell how heavy the baggage is or the emotions are or but I could tell that this is a heavy room to be in. Yeah, my friend can’t what are you talking about?

05:42
Ali
You know, you’re right.

05:42
Ray
How could you not feel it?

05:44
Ali
Yeah, I’ve been the same. Am I the only one? Exactly. Am I the only 01:00 a.m. I weird.

05:53
Ray
Exactly.

05:54
Ali
Even not just a roomy, but even for example, when I’m talking to people or I’m meeting people, I have a feeling inside and I’m like, you know what? Something’s up, something’s wrong, what’s going on?

06:06
Ray
Exactly.

06:07
Ali
And so many times I’ve had friends ask me how do you know? I’m like, I don’t know, and to.

06:12
Ray
Add to it, I call it like a part of your intuition or your gut feeling, because healers are very intuitive. You don’t have to be in the same room with someone to feel that something is off. Sometimes it just comes to you, like, I need to check in on that person. How did you know? I don’t know. I just felt it. These are healers as well.

06:34
Ali
This has been one of the most shocking things, because even if I try to explain it to myself and I’ve never been able to get clarity on exactly how it works, but if I’m sitting with somebody, I’m assuming it’s a combination of body language or what I’m visually observing and my years of experience and trying to interpret it. And then intuition kicks in. Okay, this still makes somewhat sense, right? But every now and then I’ll pick up the phone and I’ll send like a smiley face or I’ll send something to someone specific, and I’ll get a message back, how did you know I needed this? I’m like, I just felt I had to do this. I don’t know why. Same and nine out of ten times, I literally get a response, how did you know? Or, now they don’t send how did you know? Now they send a thank you.

07:19
Ali
Oh, I love that. I looked at my phone and I knew when the alert came. I’m like, this is going to be Ali, because he’s sensing what’s going on.

07:30
Ray
I love that.

07:31
Ali
And I don’t know the context of what’s going on. I don’t know what’s going on in their situation, but I feel the feeling.

07:38
Ray
Yes. So sometimes you don’t have to know.

07:41
Ali
Agreed? 100% agreed. So we have a very small portion of the population who are people who can feel and sense and have this level of empathy that they’re able to connect and relate, sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly, but who are the healers of the healers? And this is, I think, the key thing that we had talked about earlier when we decided, you know what, let’s.

08:08
Ray
Record this, we should have recorded our conversation.

08:11
Ali
I was just thinking, like, you know what, it just would have been easier if we just recorded our original conversation.

08:15
Ray
Like, guys, here it is.

08:16
Ali
Here it is.

08:17
Ray
Unfortunately, it’s other healers as well because it takes a lot of high level of skills to be able to hold space for the healer.

08:33
Ali
Yes.

08:33
Ray
Your friend. See what I mean? It takes a lot of I don’t know what’s the word that I’m looking for, but it’s not easy to hold a space for a healer. That’s one side of it. The second side of it, which I am guilty of. Healers don’t go to friends.

08:52
Ali
No.

08:52
Ray
Because we are the healers, and no one’s going to understand. No one’s going to not empathize, no one’s going to get exactly what am I talking to about or what am I feeling. It could be a story I’m telling myself. It could be based on previous experiences. It could be whatever it is. But it’s so hard to hold the space for the healer.

09:14
Ali
Agreed.

09:15
Ray
Because it’s literally like this.

09:17
Ali
Yes. It’s a big defense. I have a few very close friends who have complained to me, why don’t you share?

09:25
Ray
Why are they stopped asking for and.

09:29
Ali
After a while, many of them stop asking, but every now and then they ping back up and they’re like, but I’m here to listen to you. Why don’t you share? I’m like, Listen, I think I was created by design to have a capacity to listen, to have a capacity to hold space.

09:48
Ray
Yes.

09:49
Ali
Which I have realized over the years is significantly outside the normal. Right. I don’t see you having that capacity. So for me to share anything with you will be to burden you. This is my perspective, and I’m not going to do that. But like you said, only another person who is at that level can perhaps hold space for someone at that level. And this is not downplaying how much my friends care for me or love me. This has nothing to do with that. It’s just me recognizing that everyone has different capacities, just like everyone has different skills and different things they’re good at. I don’t see me being able to share with them helping me in any way. But what I do see is burdening them because I don’t see them having the capacity to be able to handle what I’m handling. And it’s not to say that I know that they’re there for me and I know that they are ready to support me.

10:49
Ali
And I have one friend who keeps saying, just try. I’m like, I don’t need to just try. I know I can feel this in my bones. But Rahav, you and me have had conversations that honestly, I haven’t had with anybody else on the planet. And the reason for that is I recognize that you’re able to not only hold that space, but you’re able to hold that emotion for me without letting it burn you. And that’s not easy. So that’s not easy. And this is, I think one of the things that instigated our original discussion is who are the healers? Healers coming. I’m going to circle back to this again, but one of the things I want to talk about is do healers need healers?

11:32
Ray
Yes, definitely. God. You know the quote that says every listener needs a listener? Yes. Every therapist needs a therapist. Every healer needs a healer. Every space holder needs a space holder. The reason being is that the profession or the capacity that we engage in and we invest to serve others, it’s not easy. That’s one part of it. The second part of it, we have our own baggage. We have our own traumas, we have our own stories. It surprises me that some people don’t get it because I received a few comments that but you’re a mental health coach. Why are you feeling sad? Because I’m a human. So the perception of a therapist or a healer or a psychiatrist, whatever, that they’re immune to sadness. They’re immune to being a human. That’s not true. That’s the second part of it. The third part of it is that for me to become better in holding spaces, I also need to work on myself.

12:53
Ray
I need to improve. Because even though he’s not a healer but Simon Sinek once said that even though he’s a great listener and people pay him to learn how to be active in listening, but he’s so bad in listening to friends and family. And it came as a comment or as a feedback from one of his close friends, and then he was reflecting. Wait a second. How could one skill be different with other different people? It’s the same for me to be able to be a very good healer and to hold the space without being emotionally attached or affected. I need to also work on myself because sometimes we get triggered.

13:37
Ali
Yes.

13:39
Ray
So it’s not enough for you to be able to identify the trigger. No. How could you not let it affect the session? How could you not let it make you cry yourself before you sleep? Because a lot of healers do that.

13:53
Ali
Oh, yeah.

13:54
Ray
We cry ourselves to sleep because we couldn’t do that with a client, or we can’t do that in public, or we can’t do that with friends because we’re the healers. So that’s why.

14:07
Ali
That’s tough, man. That’s tough right there. That’s tough to even understand that. It’s not easy. So first of all, it’s not one.

14:16
Ray
Thing because now the ideas are coming. One thing that could help you identify a healer. We feel collective pain.

14:26
Ali
Yes.

14:27
Ray
You know what I mean? We could be sitting comfortably. Nothing is wrong. And something collectively happens, like wars or bad news. We feel them in our bones. That’s one of the main reasons why I don’t watch news, because I know it’s going to affect me.

14:45
Ali
So that’s another I think you’re 100% right. And one of the skills I’ve learned to build over the years is to compartmentalize. It keeps me functional. Right. But at the same time, it doesn’t remove. So a lot of people think if you’re good at compartmentalizing, you’re good at everything. Compartmentalizing is I can put it in a box and put it on a shelf, but it’s still in the box and still on the shelf, and I still need to deal with it. I can’t throw it out. There’s no place to throw it out. All of these things need to get processed. And at some point, it’s lonely, right. Because it’s hard to find somebody to listen to you, that you.

15:23
Ray
Feel it’s lonely in different ways.

15:26
Ali
Yes. I was just trying to figure out.

15:28
Ray
How to say that in different ways. One way where you can’t have deep conversations or it’s not the same discussions that you get to have with other people because you don’t speak the same language. That’s one. So you don’t have much options. That’s one, two, the kind of activities or the hobbies or the interests. Like you want to explore that, I don’t know, a healing retreat. You’re reading a book about healing, but your friends would be why?

16:01
Ali
Yeah.

16:02
Ray
And you reach a point where it doesn’t make sense to even explain. So you stop sharing that there’s this retreat or there’s this book or there’s this amazing colors. You stop sharing. You want to go for, I don’t know, a coffee. Let’s go and do that. And you just end up being the listener or engaging in conversations that are really not so rich or fueling or interesting. But it’s just for the sake of saving the relationship. Friendship, it’s a filler. And it’s just with a couple people, yanni because other people call it they’re out of your circle.

16:37
Ali
Yeah.

16:37
Ray
And it gets lonely when you I’m going to just speak for myself here, but I’m sure many will relate. When you are a healer and single, everyone is a walking red flag. Oh, God, I don’t want to deal with this. I don’t want to be his healer. I don’t want to be his therapist. And then your standards gets higher and then your choices gets less and you end up, what do I do now? So it is lonely in different ways, but at the same time, it doesn’t really bother me anymore because you get to learn what to do with that feeling of loneliness without really getting deep into you and getting all the worst. I don’t know how to articulate it, but the loneliness doesn’t help me. I’m pretty sure you know what I mean. Here, it’s not that heavy.

17:43
Ali
It doesn’t hurt.

17:44
Ray
The same loneliness. You know what? We need more. A few people. That’s it. That’s it. Yeah.

17:57
Ali
It’s rough.

17:58
Ray
It is.

17:59
Ali
But at the same time, you could be surrounded. And I’ve talked about this to a lot of my friends. You could be surrounded by friends, family, close people even, and still feel very isolated in a room.

18:13
Ray
Yes. You’re not able to type of all of them. They could have good intentions, actually. Great intentions. High, very much loving towards you. And still it’s not going to feel right. Like, nope, I don’t belong in this room, but I love you guys, so here’s my minutes that I’m going to spend with you. And then bye.

18:37
Ali
So what are healers doing? Who can’t find somebody to hold space and listen to them? How are they managing? How are they coping? What’s the self soothing strategy here?

18:47
Ray
I wish I had like a one, two, three answer, but most of the time they just have to work with another healer.

18:56
Ali
Well, if that’s not an option on the table, or you haven’t found someone.

19:00
Ray
Find hobbies that fuel you learn. What is your soothing languages? What is your self care languages? In my case, I like to engage in sports, meditation, music, art. I love coloring. I love doing stuff that soothes me. Sometimes it’s literally rocking myself. I like to rock myself. So when it comes to soothing, you have to have a list of physical stuff that you could do, like dancing, rocking, bath, bubble bath, whatever it is, and do something that is creative. Coloring, drawing, writing, journaling, going to an art therapy things. These are fun. And at the same time, you might meet someone from the same or like minded, because people who go to these kind of activities are usually like minded. Usually the third part would be something sensual like scented candles, listening to music, drinking a cup of coffee, but actually letting the warmth of that cup of coffee.

20:05
Ray
I’m being very detailed because these are the things that soothes me. Like just feeling the cup of coffee, focusing on the temperature of it. It soothes me. And then the things you could listen to, it could be music, it could be just literally background music that can play in the background like rain, meditative music, watch a comedy, whatever it is, just do things that will help you cope in a healthy way.

20:37
Ali
I think the last thing you said is very critical, coping in a healthy way. And I think that’s the difference between coping and soothing because it’s supposed to be or should be, at least in a very healthy way. I think without actively thinking about it. Over the years, I’ve developed things that I do when the weather is good. Every single chance I get, I end up finding myself in the desert.

21:01
Ray
Yeah, for you it’s the desert, for.

21:02
Ali
Me, it’s the beach, desert, beautiful sunset. I’ll make myself a nice cup of tea and then friends will come over. Now, the interesting thing is, I always go earlier than the invite time, so I can have time, me time, just for me, where I can drown out the noise. There’s just so much noise, and I think a lot of people don’t understand that. People who are in our positions, there’s a lot of noise.

21:27
Ray
Yes. And you can’t explain what that noise is.

21:31
Ali
And it’s not just noise in your head. You feel noise here, right here in the middle of your chest, you feel this noise. And you need just even a moment. I don’t know where I read something about being more appreciative and gratitude and picking a moment and just focusing in on that moment. I think It was a power of now or somewhere. Now it’s about well, let me look. You and me, we agree on the fact that we learn a lot of great things from a lot of great people, but we’re able to filter them. But I remember reading or something I saw somewhere. And then I said, you know what? I make a cup of tea or coffee every time I go into work. Why am I not actively involved in that process? Yes, let me take the beans. Let me grind the beans.

22:16
Ali
Let me make the coffee. Let me sit. And then sitting with that warm mug in your hand, and those tiny little moments drown out. I don’t know how it drowns out. It soothes out the noise. I think that’s the best way to put it.

22:30
Ray
And it brings back the focus.

22:31
Ali
Fantastic. You reminded me of something, another thing. I find myself doing well when it happens, because it doesn’t rain in this country. A whole lot is as soon as it rains, I’m in my truck. I’m in my truck. I’ve got my playlist, I’m driving in the rain. Oh, my goodness. That the peace unmatchable.

22:56
Ray
You reminded me of something when you spoke about the noise. There are a few times, actually more than a few times these days because we catch other people’s energy sometimes because we’re so open. And now I’m more conscious in protecting my energy, and there are certain activities that we do. But anyway, I called my friend. She’s also a healer. Help. I called someone else’s energy, it’s so heavy. I don’t know what to do. Please. All right, great. Take a breath. But I need you to clear the energy from on my behalf and whoever the senders is, she looked at me and she was like, that’s a request I don’t get often. I was like, no, because if it’s heavy on me, I could only imagine how heavy it is on the other person. I don’t know where I got it from, but please, just let’s do a prayer or meditation or whatever it is and clear it.

23:51
Ray
So sometimes the noise is literally when you said it’s not just in our heads, it’s not internal. More often it’s external.

24:01
Ali
Yes.

24:01
Ray
So we need to be that’s why, for example, if a normal person I don’t want to use the word normal. Average person requires, let’s say, an hour of me time. We need four.

24:13
Ali
Yes.

24:14
Ray
Do you know what I mean?

24:15
Ali
Yes. I think the better way to look at it is I think this is just a different type of neurodivergence in terms of how we are right and it’s okay. It’s perfectly okay.

24:26
Ray
I’m not talking about there’s no right or wrong. It’s just how it is.

24:29
Ali
There’s no right wrong. There’s no good, bad. It’s just we’re built different, which is perfectly fine. And I think being built different for a lot of people, for many things. I have friends who have ADHD, and I’m like guys all of my friends who have ADHD, they are the most brilliant people to work with. I love working with them. The way their minds work is phenomenal. The amount of work I can produce and the quality of this separate discussion will have. But it’s just phenomenal. So the neuro divergence is nothing to be looked at as negative, right? But like you said, it’s different. And because of its differences, it requires a different way to balance out. I have people ask me that. I go, but Ali, I’m like, look, I’m going to tell you something. It’s not the answer you’re looking for, but it’s the only answer I can give you.

25:20
Ali
They’re like, what I’m like. I do what I do for a reason, and I’m able to do what I do for a reason. But understand that there is a cost to this process. I don’t need you to understand any of what I just said, big time. But all I need you to understand is there’s a method to the madness. Even if you don’t understand it’s okay. I don’t need you to understand it. I understand it. And at some point in the future, I may try and explain it to you. Fair warning, you may not understand it, but that’s okay. But the cost of doing what you do is sometimes it’s heavy.

26:02
Ray
It is. Sometimes it’s heaviness and loneliness.

26:04
Ali
Yes, very much so. But I think the world needs it, right? So I guess my next question would be how would the world be if we didn’t have these people?

26:16
Ray
The first thing that came to my mind, we wouldn’t have a world. It would have ended like way back. If there’s a little bit of a humanity, it would because of heaters and there would be less. You remember once when I told you it’s beyond me how we are in 2023 and we still ask people to be kind, to be compassionate, to do this, to do that. I promise you, if it wasn’t for the healers, regardless who they are, kindness would have been dead long time ago. Compassion would have been dead long time ago. Anything that is paying back to the community would have been dead long time ago. Because we live in an era and you could sense the shift of my energy as I’m talking because it’s so painful to even say it out loud. Where people are greedy in time and money and energy in everything, there’s greed at the same time, there’s stinginess.

27:30
Ray
And it’s so common in business where if I know something, I’m not going to share it with you. I’m not going to teach you because I’m the better coach or trainer or whatever it is. So there’s greed, stinginess, there is selfishness. And when I say selfishness, it’s a line just right before being a narcissist. And people mix it up with, I love myself. No, this is not self love.

28:01
Ali
Oh, we need to have a separate talk on self love versus selfishness. Oh my goodness.

28:05
Ray
This is not you loving yourself.

28:06
Ali
This is just you being an a******.

28:09
Ray
Thank you so much. I didn’t know if I could say it. This is just you being an a**. What else we wouldn’t have been able to filter anything we say. Because I would imagine that people would be on the streets punching one another, killing one another for very stupid reasons. And we have seen that happen in many places, but on a very lower scale if it wasn’t for healers massacre.

28:42
Ali
And I think another thing that people don’t realize is that the word balance is very important. The word filter is also very important, especially for healers to find that balance. Filtering is very important. You have to filter out all the time. It’s a very active effort. It’s a very active effort to the point that sometimes it’s exhausting.

29:08
Ray
Sometimes it’s exhausting because this is why we sometimes wake up with exhaustion that we cannot explain.

29:14
Ali
Oh my goodness. Don’t get me started. I saw a meme this earlier this morning. I think I reposted it. Me watching a video at 03:00 A.m. About the importance of sleeping early. Sounds like my life. But yes, that filtration process is a constant active process that needs to be put into place. Otherwise you’re emotionally drowning and you would be burned out.

29:42
Ray
And when a healer gets a burnout, it’s much harder for them to stand up than an average person because they fall. They fall like it’s a proper one. They go deep into it. So there’s another side of heat. I think we should dedicate another episode of that. But there’s also a rising topic or issue when it comes to heaters. And I can tell, you know where I’m going with this. The false healers or the wannabe healers, or mind you, they have good intentions, but they’re just doing more harm than good. And people are falling for it.

30:27
Ali
This is going to be a whole separate discussion that I want to have. And actually I’m going to bring in a couple of industry experts to kind of chime in, please do. On the illusion of quality that’s being created industry.

30:41
Ray
It’s them that is ruining healing and what it is. This basically concept, or whatever it is, it’s fueling the skepticals.

30:54
Ali
Yes.

30:55
Ray
It doesn’t give them much space to understand what healing is and how it can help them grow and become better in their roles in life. Because of these kind of wannabes, I’m going to call them wannabes.

31:07
Ali
That’s exactly what it is. And we’ll definitely have another larger discussion on that just to kind of wrap up on things. The last thing I’m thinking in my head is that these people who are high emotional intelligence, these empaths, these healers, whatever name you want to give them, how can we nurture and support them?

31:27
Ray
Who’s we?

31:28
Ali
Because good question.

31:31
Ray
When you say we, who’s we?

31:34
Ali
Let’s talk about everybody who is with good intention, but is not going to be capable of holding space for them. Yes, let’s say friends and family, stop.

31:45
Ray
Trying to change them.

31:46
Ali
Agreed.

31:47
Ray
Stop trying to make them feel that they don’t. Fit or they’re wrong or they’re something to be fixed.

31:54
Ali
Agreed.

31:54
Ray
That’s two, three stop trying to understand them. Just be present.

32:00
Ali
Oh, that’s a good one and a very tough one.

32:02
Ray
Learn how to be present.

32:04
Ali
People don’t like things they can’t understand. Yeah, but that’s a hard one.

32:07
Ray
But it’s a hard one. We know how to do this.

32:10
Ali
Yes.

32:11
Ray
I am not expecting everyone to, but just being present could start as simple as ali, I don’t understand, but I’m here. Or it could be something like that’s a good one. It’s a very common one. When you come to share something. Like, I have a healing session. Why do you need healing? What is wrong with you?

32:37
Ali
Bro?

32:41
Ray
I have a healing session. Great. Have fun.

32:45
Ali
You know how that translates to me in my life and what I’ve done? I agree with you on everything you said and everything you mentioned. I was thinking of an experience I’ve had. I remember a friend asking me, how’s it going? I’m like it’s. All right. It’s okay. And they’re like I’m like, well, some days are less okay. Some days are more okay. And then this friend’s like, is this one of those less okay days? I’m like, yes, it’s one of those less okay days. Can I do something I’m like, Honestly, not really. Would you like to sit for a coffee? I’m like, sure. And then I remember we met up. We sat for coffee for, like, a good hour and a half. We talked about nothing useful or productive, totally random things. And at the end of the hour and a half, my friend’s like, Are you feeling better?

33:37
Ali
I’m like, yes, but we didn’t talk about anything. I’m like, I didn’t need to. The fact that you were there again, I don’t know how to explain very well, but it kind of recharged me, like a solar battery. You had all this positive energy, and I just felt recharged. I didn’t need to discuss or resolve or issue or whatever. The fact that you were physically there, again, I don’t know how it works. I don’t need to know how it works. Right? But I feel recharged. Thank you so much. I’ve had friends like that who have just been present, and then I’ve had friends like, oh, bro, what can we do? I’m like, you want the honest answer? As long as you don’t feel offended. I’m like, Leave me alone today. I’m like engaging with you.

34:22
Ray
I would have said it in a different way.

34:24
Ali
These are very close friends. I’m like, no, if I hang out with you and the boys, you’re not.

34:29
Ray
Going to get the best out of me.

34:32
Ali
I’m not in a headspace that I will be of any use in that situation or in that social setting. Plus, there’s nothing that you’re going to be able to do that’s going to make me come to a better place. I might just go for a drive, grab a cup of tea, and put on my playlist, and I’ll just kind of recharge that way. It might not be the most efficient way, but it’s not efficient to you. Yeah, I said it’s efficient to me. I know what you’re trying to do, but that’s not going to work for me. Oh, bro.

35:00
Ray
No problem.

35:01
Ali
Yeah, got it.

35:02
Ray
I would add something to this safety. If you are my friend as a healer, I’m talking if you’re my friend or a family member or a partner, significant other, whatever, make me feel or help me feel safe around you enough not to hide anything that is going on in my life. I don’t need to hide that I go to therapy because my friends don’t understand why I’m going to therapy. I don’t need to hide that I’m having a low energy day because in your head, you don’t have a valid reason why I’m having a bad day. So make us feel safe. That would be and I wanted to be very clear on that it’s not anyone’s responsibility to make someone feel safe. It’s just holding the space and being present in a way where if you don’t understand it, don’t judge it non judgmental. That’s it.

35:54
Ray
Respect it.

35:55
Ali
Respect it.

35:55
Ray
If you really want to understand it, there are plenty of resources. Don’t bombard us with so many questions that you’re not willing to understand or having a proper conversation with us. Because at some point in my case, I had a circle, and then it got closer and closer. Now I literally have three people in it. I don’t want to lose those three people. I love them. You know, Yanni, I hear you. I speak about them all the time. I love them to pieces. But hey, know how to just be present. Yeah, that’s it. Let me be myself as much as I allow you to be yourself, so.

36:38
Ali
Allow not just the holding the space, but just allow me to have my space.

36:43
Ray
I don’t want to be defending why I go to therapy. I don’t want to explain myself all the time, Halas. I go to therapy sessions because I love it. Let me be. I’m just not the personal example. I’m one of many who feel the same. And it’s sad because we don’t have these kind of conversations unless you paid for an experience. So you could be surrounded with like minded people, or you get like, one in a million, not in 101 in a million, and then you find them, my million dollar friend. Hello.

37:17
Ali
I know exactly what you’re talking about. I mean, this conversation has been interesting. I’ve been getting, like, deja vu conversation.

37:24
Ray
We already spoke about that, but it was all right. Let’s just give you a background. We wanted to dedicate this episode for healers, therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists, mental health experts, because we feel you, and based on our experiences, we know how it feels, and we really get not recognition. It’s just I don’t know, what’s the word I’m looking for? We’re not doing this for the recognition. It’s just that it’s a lonely place to be in.

37:54
Ali
We’re not seen.

37:55
Ray
We’re not seeing because yes, we’re not seen. So we see you.

38:02
Ali
For me. See me. Leave me alone.

38:05
Ray
We see you.

38:06
Ali
Let me do my thing.

38:08
Ray
Yeah, we see you. We love you, we hear you, we support you, and we appreciate the work you do. Thank you. And of course, I wouldn’t be a half if I don’t say we love you.

38:21
Ali
100% what she said. I agree 100% what she said. And, yes, please know that even though and trust me, I’m talking to the healers now, you are definitely not alone in feeling what you’re feeling. Been there, done that. I should get a T shirt at this point.

38:42
Ray
Next time.

38:44
Ali
That’s a good idea.

38:45
Ray
Next time.

38:45
Ali
Fantastic. Anyways, guys, that’s all the time. I don’t want to keep you longer on this. I hope today’s conversation makes you think. I hope today’s conversation makes you think if you’re a healer, makes you think that you’re not alone, makes you think that there’s others out there and there’s people who are not a whole lot, but there’s a handful of people. And that tiny little handful of people need to be part of your inner circle. And that’s something you’re going to have to actively work and build towards everybody else. If you’ve got somebody in your life who holds space for you, who is your rock, who is the one that you go to and you’re able to unburden yourself, just go say thank you. Because trust me, what they do is not easy. What they do is not easy. And even though they were built for it, still doesn’t make it easy.

39:34
Ali
Everybody stay blessed. See you later. Until the next one.

39:40
Ray
Are we waving? Wait.