S04E06 – Full Circle Moment – Manahil Ijaz

0:00 – Ali Khawaja
Foreign. Welcome back. Yes, another episode. I know I’m doing good this season, right? Last season I did one and disappeared. So. No, no, I’m here. I’m here. I’m with a very, very good friend of mine. We met, oh, a great. So many years ago, and we run paths on, oh, so many different ventures and projects, and both of us have worn and still wear so many different hats. So as soon as I was like, okay, this season, I need. I need to get Manahil in the podcast room. So first of all, thank you very much for making the time.

0:38 – Manahil Ijaz
Thank you so much. This is. This is such a big moment for me.

0:42 – Ali Khawaja
Okay.

0:43 – Manahil Ijaz
It is. It really is. Like I said, we go way back and. And our journey has been so impactful for me, and I will definitely share about that as well as I introduce myself. I think it’s been Covid. Covid. Since COVID I believe so. Since co. Since COVID And I actually got introduced to you by Mental Health ae, which for me is a very, very big part of who I am today.

1:09 – Ali Khawaja
Oh, that’s lovely.

1:10 – Manahil Ijaz
Literally.

1:10 – Ali Khawaja
So. So those of you listening, we were never a podcast.

1:13 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

1:13 – Ali Khawaja
So we started before COVID It’s been, I think now, seven years. Maybe six. Seven years. And you know, for those of you who might not have heard on previous episodes, this is not my area. This is not my background. Myself and my co founder, Latifah, we literally started this out of a need that something needs to be done. Something needs to be there. Something just needs to be there. Because you were finding a void, you were finding nothing. So we put together dinky little website, Mental Health. They literally started copy pasting resources and links. Latifah got the Instagram going, then we got the Meetup page going. And the meetup page started with peer to peer events, then some training and educational events. And then Covid happened. We went to online, and then somewhere along that journey, you know, we crossed paths.

2:00 – Manahil Ijaz
Yes. And I think I found you on meetup at the worst point of my life. The worst point. I just graduated, graduation got canceled. I lost my job. We were trapped at home. And here I open my laptop and I’m like, meetup. And then I see Mental Health Weekly Wellness, and I’m like, let’s go, let’s join this. I joined then, and I remember the first or second session. I was like, second call. I was like, there’s people here who want to talk about how they feel. Whoa, that’s so. That was so interesting to me. The concept was so interesting to me. And Then obviously, the way they used to lead those group calls was so natural. There was no pretending, there was no agenda or some sort of like, we’re going to do this kind of regime. And I just love that. And then I think I kind of just stuck on. I was like, okay, I’m in. I’m telling other people to join as well. And we. I ended up making so many friends through that, who, by the way, still, till today, are some of my closest friends. So, great, great start. I mean, great step forward for me in Covid when I really needed it.

3:02 – Ali Khawaja
I’m glad. I’m glad. I’m glad to hear that. And, you know, I keep telling everybody we’re all guilty of making assumptions. And. Yeah, the biggest assumption everybody makes is that their version of life is the normal or the average or everybody’s. I grew up in a household where it was okay to talk about anything.

3:17 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

3:18 – Ali Khawaja
You know, and my, my mom was the one, the pushing force. Like, she was the one that would say, talk about whatever. Whatever problem you’re having. There’s nothing to be ashamed of. This is a safe space. This is family. I thought that was everybody. I did not realize that till maybe high school when I was like, why are my friends having these weird troubles at home? What’s wrong with them? And then why is everyone got the same wrong thing? And I’m like, oh, wait, I am the outlier.

3:45 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

3:46 – Ali Khawaja
You know, and so that, that over the years, post high school, over the years unfolded with so many different things that I would realize were not normal. But when the discussion of mental health a. The single biggest thing that shook me, not just shocked me, it shook me to my core, was the data. The data did not match what I was seeing. So is the data lying or are my eyes lying? And I always go back to that one. There’s so many data points. Right. But that one, the 20, 25% of some people, on average are dealing with something mental health related. That just blew me away. I teach four sections a semester. I teach at university. So the math tells me one entire section worth of students have been dealing with somebody. How’s that? How’s that? And I didn’t see that. How’s that?

4:32 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

4:33 – Ali Khawaja
And then the other thing, why isn’t anybody talking about it? Like, why isn’t. Every time that question, why isn’t anybody talking about just kept, you know, scratching away at me, scratching away at me. And then I told people, I don’t know. I don’t know what we’re going to do. We’re going to do something, I’ll figure it out. And I remember very clearly, every time she remembers, you know, she remembers that same point. I sent her a Link, Mental Health AE on WhatsApp. And she replied, it’s not working. And I’m like, yeah, I just booked the domain. We have to make it work. And then there’s like a tiny panic attack, like, but we don’t know anything. I’m like, well, apparently nobody, anybody else.

5:09 – Manahil Ijaz
Exactly.

5:10 – Ali Khawaja
And, you know, again, back to what my mom taught me, you know, if something needs to be done, do it.

5:14 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

5:14 – Ali Khawaja
Don’t complain. Do it. So that’s where we started. And we honestly, completely organically grew. You’ve been with us, you know, on that journey from a long time. And pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot. Now we’re a podcast.

5:25 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

5:25 – Ali Khawaja
At some point, our primary was to just get people access to mental health and wellness resources. The silver lining of COVID Ton of companies popped up, awareness popped up, corporates got interested. It’s fizzled down a little bit, but still a lot better than pre Covid. So rather than talking more about mental health and where we were and how we were, we are where we are now, you know, thanks to the community, thanks to everybody around us. We, I think, stopped doing the meetups after we crossed about 100ish events. And then we left it to, you know, so many other great organizations to do it. So let’s, let’s, let’s rewind back. I remember you were, you were in corporate.

6:07 – Manahil Ijaz
Yes.

6:08 – Ali Khawaja
Right. So covet. Covet. You had graduated. No, Job.

6:11 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

6:12 – Ali Khawaja
Then I remember job. Then I remember vaguely corporate cloud, I heard.

6:15 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah. So you heard a lot.

6:18 – Ali Khawaja
Yeah.

6:18 – Manahil Ijaz
I’d meet you, I got a job, I’d meet you. Internet. I left that job. That was really me. There was a lot of those.

6:25 – Ali Khawaja
There was a lot of excitement. And for me, it’s very exciting because I joined my university as a student in January of 1999, finished as an undergrad, finished as a grad, worked as staff, been working as faculty. It’s 2026. I’m still there.

6:42 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

6:43 – Ali Khawaja
So for me to hear, like, wait, what? Where we are in job number one. So I always loved, I was kind of fascinated. But let’s rewind back. Tell me a little bit about, you know, we met and then what’s been going on since.

6:55 – Manahil Ijaz
Because, oh, so much since COVID I think. So obviously mental health A. When I joined it, I was still such a baby. Honestly, like, when I look back, I was, I didn’t know what to expect. I. I graduated into a world that didn’t actually resonate anymore. So from there I was just navigating job job. Looking at whatever I was doing. I’m a marketing professional, right. So I was looking at roles in. I’ve been interested in mental health and psychology for the longest time. Quick backstory. I did psychology in ASA level, so I was very deeply interested in psychology, but I didn’t pursue it. It was something that I always wanted to. I used to write about it through my blog, which, by the way, I started during that time after mental health ae.

7:37 – Ali Khawaja
Side note, Manahil was a contributor to some of our mental health AE blogs also. Back then.

7:42 – Manahil Ijaz
Yes, yes. That’s why this is such a big moment, because I joined the wellness group, I met you in person, and then I contributed some of the, you know, blogs, and then I started my own blog inspired by that. You know, same thing of like, if nobody’s going to do it, let me just go ahead. So a lot of inspiration happened during that time. Then, you know, I had to get a job, obviously. I looked for jobs and roles, and I always found myself a little bit wacky, different for these roles. I had a lot of energy and a lot of heart towards what I was doing. I consider myself now someone who works well in a corporate environment, but I always want to deliver more. And I do genuinely care about the people in the organization than just the corporate side of things. And mind you, marketing has a lot to do with what you do with your community, even in organizational levels. What are you doing with your staff? What are you doing with other organizations? How are you delivering value otherwise? I always saw myself more drawn towards those aspects, obviously. And of course, there’s the regular business side of things, which I was good at. So throughout my career, I kind of built that. Built that. Now the jobs that I was coming across were always. They helped me grow. I learned a lot. Like, I learned a great deal. I also had like, a lot of agency experience at the time. Then Covid happened, I was like, let’s just take up the experience. I kept trying and I pivoted fast. I would say, like, I used to keep pivoting. Okay, next. Okay, next. And this is kind of the beauty of Dubai. I’ve been very lucky that that’s happened based on how I am. I’m very open to meeting new people and like, okay, what can we do together? Oh, let’s. Let’s find a way to collaborate. Let’s do this. So then, you know, fast forward six years. I’ve had many jobs, many different industries. I’ve learned a lot and I’ve met a bunch of people. But I think the bottom line is I like to do intentional work. Like, I like to work with companies, people, brands that are providing a little bit something that I can be like, yeah, you know, I’m proud of this. And that’s where I am today now, which is entrepreneurship, which is, you know, servicing clients that are building something exceptional. And, and the thing with that is that they don’t have to be brands. Initiatives like my mental health AE and some of the other nonprofits that I support, like fame, they are the core of what I do. They make me so proud of what I’m doing. It’s part of my. It’s really part of my story. So for me, like, that’s when I realized, like, yeah, I’m. I’m. I’m very interested in working with people who bring something unique for the service of other people. And service is a huge part of what I’ve sort of gained across these six. So, yeah, I’ve experienced a lot. And now where I’m at, I’ve learned a lot from mentors like you. I have learned a lot from you, honestly, on how to speak to people, how to bring people together, how to do more than what you’re just expected to do, which is something that not a lot of people, not a lot of mentors, especially not a lot of professors are going to tell you either. I didn’t have those kinds of professors.

10:42 – Ali Khawaja
I hear you. I’m not going to not disagree.

10:47 – Manahil Ijaz
So I. When I came across you, I think I found that, oh, my God, this person is like, you know, in an educational institute, and he talks about all these things of, I’m building this, and I’m gonna play with this gadget and I’m gonna start this, you know, community. And I’m just like, people do that. Like, university people have time to do these things. And I think I spoke to you once and I said, like, how do you do it? And you’re just like, you just do it because, like, you enjoy it. Like, and I’m like, so. So you can do things that you just enjoy and there’s no other outcome out of it. And that was mind blowing for me.

11:16 – Ali Khawaja
Nice. Nice.

11:16 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

11:17 – Ali Khawaja
No, you know, again, you know, everyone who’s heard my podcast will always, you know, hear. Hear me talk about my mom.

11:24 – Manahil Ijaz
Yes.

11:24 – Ali Khawaja
At some point I need to get her. Yes. I’ve got a lot. I’ve gotten so many requests to get her on the Show. Yeah, but you know, this is again, something mom said. She goes, you don’t do stuff because somebody’s told you you should do stuff because you want to. And don’t run around life asking why you should do stuff. Something. Think about why not.

11:44 – Manahil Ijaz
That’s such a good way.

11:45 – Ali Khawaja
How interesting would this be? How exciting would this be? And let me try because, okay, you’ll fail. But if you didn’t try, you failed anyways. So why fail by default? Why not try and fail? So that’s always kind of been like my default. My default is whatever crazy thing to do, let’s do it.

12:01 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

12:02 – Ali Khawaja
My kids know this. They’re like, they’re like, you’re the weirdest, like, dad of all our friends. Fathers. You’re like the weirdest one.

12:08 – Manahil Ijaz
I think that’s a compliment.

12:09 – Ali Khawaja
And I’m like, why? They’re like, you know, we, we see like memes and posts and whatever about it, but you are textbook, you know, a kid with adult money.

12:19 – Manahil Ijaz
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

12:23 – Ali Khawaja
Let’s go. You know, and all my friends know this and, and I, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m a. This is. Again, some who have just listened in and haven’t heard me before will be shocked. I’m an introvert. I’m a very high functioning introvert. So, you know, there’s a lot of social events that happen during, for example, the winter time that soccer or something. I don’t even follow soccer. There was some crop world cup, some cup. I don’t know, I was hosting viewing parties in the desert. We’ve been doing. Oh yeah, we’ve been doing off roading stuff, camping stuff. I met your parents also through these events. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So it’s nice, but it’s, it’s selective social for me.

13:06 – Manahil Ijaz
I agree.

13:06 – Ali Khawaja
I’ve, I’ve always been like that. And I have a lot of my friends that, man, you just disappeared. I’m like, yeah, man, battery, battery ran out. I don’t got. I don’t have patience for you all anymore. And they laugh about it because they know that I don’t think ill of them. They also know that I don’t hate them. I do like them.

13:21 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

13:22 – Ali Khawaja
But I can only. I only got so much social energy and I realized that very early on people who are very close to me would be like, he had a feeling

13:33 – Manahil Ijaz
that was gonna happen.

13:35 – Ali Khawaja
Ladies and gentlemen, my podcast studio is falling apart. Look, my light came down. No, no, don’t worry. There’s always more tape. And you know me You’ve seen my truck. My truck is held together with tape.

13:47 – Manahil Ijaz
Your truck is amazing.

13:48 – Ali Khawaja
Time out, everybody. I’m gonna tape this guy back up again with some fresh tape. This is, this is, this is Alibi Engineering. Don’t worry, I got you. One sec.

14:00 – Manahil Ijaz
I love it.

14:01 – Ali Khawaja
There you go. Good as new. And to make it better, one more piece.

14:06 – Manahil Ijaz
Nice.

14:07 – Ali Khawaja
Note to editor, leave this part in, it’ll be funny. So, you know, you know, the little trips in the desert, a little barbecue off roading with my guys, you know, few selected, far between, I’m happy with it. But I’ve always appreciated something that I realized that I had that most of my colleagues and friends didn’t was time. So teaching at the university, I don’t have a 40 hour work week. I have whatever I teach, I have my office hours and I’m off. And then I’ve got three months vacation in the summer, I’ve got a couple of weeks in the winter break. So what do you do? So this is exactly why all of the various projects that you are aware of and then a whole bunch of others that you might not never even heard of. I’m into.

14:54 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

14:55 – Ali Khawaja
But circling back, that’s nice. It’s nice to see that, you know, there’s an impact. And I remember telling Latifah early when we started because, you know, we both had genuine concerns that we don’t know nothing about psychology or mental health or wellness or therapy or whatever. I mean, I, I am, I am a certified coach. But that’s, that’s not psychology. That’s not, that’s not therapy. That’s different. Right? And I told him, like, look, you know, look at it from a. We’re both business. She’s a management finance graduate, I’m information systems and MBA in strategy. So very hardcore business, the both of us. I said, look, what’s the roi? What’s the return on investment? You, you, you pursue a venture, you make an investment, you need to figure out what’s going to be my return on that investment. And then you decide if it’s a go, no go. And then I said, look, for me, if all of this helps one person live a better life, even if it’s one day, even if it’s a 1% improvement, that’s enough. I’m good, I’m good. Because, I mean, honestly, what else can I ask for? So this is kind of where the journey started. And you know, you were there, you witnessed all of it, quite honestly.

16:03 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

16:04 – Ali Khawaja
So talk to me a little bit more about what you’re up to right now. And now you know it. We are on the Mental Health AE podcast, right? And I know that you either directly or indirectly carry that with you. So tell me more.

16:21 – Manahil Ijaz
So, I mean, mental health is very close to me, obviously. No, no hiding. I. I had my own mental health challenges when I was younger and I spoke to many psychologists myself and therapy was a part of my life, is a part of my life. I’m very vocal about it. And I also was fortunate enough to in early into my career work with a non profit, a startup that was focusing on mental health for South Asians. And that was like a click. And through that I actually learned so much more within the industry and in uae. So although I’m not a psychology graduate or I didn’t actually pursue it professionally, I had a lot of exposure to a lot of mental health professionals very fast in the last, I think three or four years having conversations with therapists, getting them understanding their business challenges. So it was kind of a different unique lens that I was seeing and I was also understanding the challenges with people. So I took all that information in through my, you know, ventures of working with clients and I kind of said, okay, what can I see from this and how can I help? Now like you said, you know, we don’t have psychology knowledge and you know, we don’t know the technical stuff, but some people generally connect to certain people because they bring a sense of, you know, comfort when they speak. And I for one can like latch onto those people really quickly. I felt that when I was around certain people like that I, I felt better. And it was not for any other reason but the fact that their energy brought some sense of calm and direction. And just when they said, you know, like, how are you? It felt like something. And I witnessed that with you and your wellness circles. So, so taking it back from there, when I was working on one of my clients initiatives, I wanted to start the same thing there when we didn’t have Wellness Wellness weekly wellness sessions. So I think I told you I was like, I’m gonna be starting this. Are you gonna support me? Because like, I wanna try and do this leading thing. And you were so, like happy you showed up for so many of those sessions. So many of our, like, previous, you know, members joined in also, like, big shout out to the community I’ve had throughout Mental Health ae to my personal clients to now what I’m doing. All of them have been like, they know exactly what I’ve been up to. They’ve all just like hopped, okay, What’s Manaha doing next? We’re just gonna go there. And I yeah, that really is the power. And I was just like, yeah, there’s something that can kind of keep people latched on as long as there’s value in it. It’s not for the purpose of, oh, I’m going to do this and this is going to happen. It’s like I’m going to keep the central thing of it, which is making people feel seen and heard and carry it forward in whatever format. Right. Whether that’s through a client initiative or whether it’s my own business initiative. And that’s kind of what happened. So I was doing it for a client first and that grew very well. We helped so many people. The idea of that was to have a space where people would come talk and if they needed support, we had that resource available. So just to mention, Summer Health is an online platform where you can access therapists within the UAE at an affordable rate. So it was kind of mutually beneficial there that we were providing the space where they could have a conversation with us and if they needed that support, they can go there. So it just worked really well. But the part where I was really excited about was I was getting to meet so many people through that and soon after we did that for a while. We did I don’t know how many sessions it was. Many, many. We did some in person meets. We had lots of fun. We did Suhoor and we did. I don’t know that bar. Was it a barbecue? It was a barbecue. Barbecue. So we did a barbecue and of course Ali was there for all of it. So Ali wasn’t.

19:48 – Ali Khawaja
He was there the whole time where there is food?

19:51 – Manahil Ijaz
Oh yeah. He was the food sponsor by the way. Most of the time where there is

19:55 – Ali Khawaja
food, there I am.

19:56 – Manahil Ijaz
Food. Food and karak, wherever they are, is probably sponsored by Ali, by the way, like anytime. I think that’s going to be like, like regardless. When we have like my new group for Device Circle, which I’m going to lead into which I’m running right now, when we have that requirement, I will be contacting you for karak and you know, meat options.

20:13 – Ali Khawaja
For sure, for sure, 100% coming. You pre volunteered me for anything with food done.

20:19 – Manahil Ijaz
And I love food. So that’s also another connecting point. Like psychology and food need to be there. Food is life. Life is food. My therapy is food. God.

20:31 – Ali Khawaja
So yeah, half, half of my retail therapy is food.

20:34 – Manahil Ijaz
Basically. That’s true. Good food, good food, good food.

20:37 – Ali Khawaja
Excellent.

20:38 – Manahil Ijaz
So yeah, so I was doing that with Summer Health, and then that brand pivoted into a different direction, and a lot of those members were still there. They were just like, okay, what should we do? And I spoke to the founder and I was like, would it be something that, you know, I can take over? Because, honestly, I missed it.

20:54 – Ali Khawaja
Yeah.

20:54 – Manahil Ijaz
More than anybody, I missed that. That sort of. That consistency, that seeing these faces every now and then, keeping a check on everybody throughout these sessions. I can’t tell you how many journeys I’ve walked with other people. Those who have come to Dubai, they moved a place, they lost a job, they went into debt, or they got out of debt, or they, you know, found another. They really relocated back to their country. Like, you’re actually following a lot of their life that’s happening, and you’re witnessing. And truth be told, now people that are with Dubai Circle are the ones that are, like, very grateful to have that, like, that community that was there from the beginning. And I believe that. I mean, I’m a Dubai kid. I’ve been raised here. But a lot of the expats that come nowadays, like, in the last six, seven years, it’s a very isolating, challenging place to be here in Dubai. It’s not easy to find your people that quick, and it’s harder to have honest conversations. Yes, you’ll have conversations about jobs and this and that, but, like, to be like, I don’t know what to do about, like, social stuff, like, how do I meet people, how do I connect? How do I talk to someone if I’m not feeling okay? Because it’s all foreign. And we saw that happen. And that, for me, was such a big part of what I was doing. And now with Dubai Circle, that’s basically what we’re focusing on. Getting more people that we can help bring into the community where they feel like they can speak, they can share, they can listen. I think one of the big things that I see happen most often, and I think it’s a very intrinsic thing that I enjoy, some people will join the call and they will just. Just be there and say nothing for weeks, and they’ll just be there and. And, like, after a couple of weeks, they’ll. They. They will willingly want to speak. And for me, that’s like, that’s my Nobel Prize. Like, that’s like, whoa. Without anything.

22:41 – Ali Khawaja
I. I remember this from early days of our support. Support meetups and whatnot. And I would say in the very beginning, I’m like, guys, there’s no rules, but I’ll outline framework. The framework is Simple. You don’t need to contribute. You don’t need to say anything. And this was in person, same as online also. And you don’t need to say anything. You can just sit and listen. I won’t ask you to forcefully introduce yourself. Nothing. Yeah, everything is just okay. Everything’s okay.

23:07 – Manahil Ijaz
Everything is okay.

23:08 – Ali Khawaja
And I remember. And, you know, a hundred meetups is. You don’t realize it, but it’s a lot.

23:14 – Manahil Ijaz
That’s a lot.

23:15 – Ali Khawaja
And it adds up. And some were peer to peer support. Some were like our Tuesday talks, which. Which, you know, morphed into the podcast you’re listening to now. I remember I got a mess. I mean, again, something really funny. My whole life, you know, this has happened to me without. Without fail, without fail. Every time I’m doing something, and then I’ll be like, oh, man, this is just tiring. This is just exhausting. I don’t think I can do it. I don’t think I have that. You know, this. You have these conversations in your head. And I remember telling Latifah about this many times, actually, and that there’s this one time I was like, man, this. Because it takes a lot to host. You. You’ve done it. So to host some of these sessions, sometimes it gets heavy.

23:58 – Manahil Ijaz
Yes.

23:58 – Ali Khawaja
Sometimes people bring.

24:00 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

24:01 – Ali Khawaja
A lot.

24:01 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

24:02 – Ali Khawaja
And it’s okay. We’re creating a safe space, we’re allowing them to share, but it’s still a lot.

24:07 – Manahil Ijaz
Y.

24:07 – Ali Khawaja
And for me to host on a weekly basis, it got a lot. Yeah. It. It. Sometimes it would add up. I would be, you know, like, the rest of the week, my brain would be reflecting and thinking of what that person said.

24:20 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah. Person said, yes.

24:21 – Ali Khawaja
And then I’d be like, oh, my goodness.

24:22 – Manahil Ijaz
You know, like, yes.

24:23 – Ali Khawaja
Sometimes it’s got heavy, and then sometimes there’s topics that are. You’re okay, you’re a little bit tough with. Sometimes they just kind of go all the way through. You were like, oh, my goodness.

24:32 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

24:33 – Ali Khawaja
And I remember there was a week where I was just like, man, I don’t think I can do this anymore. Then I was thinking, okay, maybe I’ll take a break. Let me take a couple of months off. I don’t know. I don’t know. I remember I talked to Latifah about it. I said, listen, it’s gotten. And she. She. I got a hand. She always warmed me, day one. She goes, as soon as it gets too heavy, let me know. I’m like, what are you gonna do? She goes, I’m gonna stop you. What? She Goes, no, because I know you, you’re not gonna stop. Yeah, you, you, you will do it till you collapse. Yeah. So as soon as it starts to feel heavy, let me know, I will, you know, stop you so you can have space to heal. Then I told her and she goes, okay, the next one is scheduled after the next one announced that you’re going to take a little break and come back to it. Because at the same time I honestly couldn’t find somebody to take my spot. It’s a trust thing, right? Yeah, I know. I trust a lot of people, but can I trust them with this? Yeah, that was difficult also. So the week was going on and you know, our meetup was coming up and then I get a text message from, from a number in India. It was like pages. And first I’m like, oh, it must be some spam, they’re selling me something. It literally started Alibayi. And I’m like, okay, like people who know me call me alibi, maybe this guy know. And I looked at the name, I didn’t recognize it. I opened the profile, I looked at his picture, I’m like, kinda looks familiar, but I don’t remember this guy. And then I started reading and reading and reading and reading it’s pages. So this young man had come to a handful of our in person meetups. Never participated, never said a word, never introduced himself. He just came and now he had, you know, found himself back in India. And then he wrote this huge letter and just a little bit I’ll share, essentially he talked about how he felt alone and it was just nice for him to sit with people who did not judge him.

26:28 – Manahil Ijaz
Yes.

26:28 – Ali Khawaja
For who he is or what he looked like or what his salary was or what car he was driving or what phone he had. Yeah. And they were not talking about superficial stuff. They were just talking about life, good, bad and ugly. And he said that that was the most he felt, you know, connected to somebody his whole time here and you know, his job, whatever, did not work out. And he had to go back. And then now that he was back, he was socializing with his friends from college and school. But he wanted to take time to send me this note. I, I just, I just sat there, I had tears running down my face and I didn’t know what to do with myself. I remember I, I, I called up Latifah, I’m like, I need to have a chat with you. She goes, what’s going on? I’m like, I’m gonna send you this message. And then you just need to read it. And she read it, and I could hear her crying. And she’s like, so I’m not sure, like, what. What are we doing? I’m like, I’m. I. I’m not taking a break.

27:30 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

27:31 – Ali Khawaja
She’s like, what? I’m like, I’m not taking a break because every single time I felt like I can’t do something or I don’t have the energy to do something, I always. Something happens. It’s like a message from God. And I’m like, latifah, I got my message. I can’t. I can’t stop this. I have to keep working. And it’s like, are you sure? Are you sure? I’m like, you read the message, right? She goes, yeah. I’m like, yeah. How do I know that on the next meeting that I skip, there’s not going to be a young somebody who’s going to need that extra support on that extra day.

28:01 – Manahil Ijaz
Exactly.

28:01 – Ali Khawaja
So I’m going to put as much energy as I can into. And, you know, that’s kind of where I started. And what you talked about is very true. And this. Part of the reason I wanted to have you on this episode is to talk more about your current venture. You call it a circle.

28:17 – Manahil Ijaz
Yes.

28:18 – Ali Khawaja
All right. Circle is fantastic. All right. Fantastic. So many reasons. But I love what you put together because it shows as somebody external who’s been watching you all these years from afar, it shows how you have come together and brought all of your life’s experiences into this venture. Yeah, I think it’s brilliant. So share with us more about this venture.

28:43 – Manahil Ijaz
Honestly, like I mentioned, I’ve been inspired by you. So many of the rules that I. Rules, guidelines that I saw during the mental health AE meetups, I’ve kind of emulated and I’ve tried to make. Tried to create a space because I also joined lots of other groups where I. I wanted to see what other people do in these community sessions. And this is what I felt was lacking. The thing that I tried to create in Dubai Circle is that there’s a shared space where anybody can join and they do not have to perform. And that starts with the person that moderates it. That starts with someone who is deeply authentic. So it’s a huge responsibility on me to show up as I am. I’ve showed up sick. I’ve showed up during a crisis. I’ve showed up literally with my hair, turban. I’ve showed up. You’ve seen that. I’ve showed up when I was in expo, you know, I have showed up because I wanted to let them know that this is not some sort of formal scheduled meeting, that this is generating an outcome that if you join, you know, in three weeks, you will feel better. I’m not promising anything. It is to check in and take time for yourself to do nothing with lots of other people. And that. Nothing.

29:55 – Ali Khawaja
I love that. Do nothing with lots of other people.

29:56 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah, do nothing.

29:58 – Ali Khawaja
People don’t understand how hard that is.

30:00 – Manahil Ijaz
It is.

30:01 – Ali Khawaja
It is so hard because. Because of our conditioning. Right. We’ve been conditioned to run, run, run, run, run.

30:05 – Manahil Ijaz
Yes.

30:06 – Ali Khawaja
Achieve, achieve, achieve, achieve. Never to slow down and live.

30:09 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

30:09 – Ali Khawaja
And you know, the Dubai problem is a big city problem. It’s every city. It’s every big city, especially cities like the Dubai. Why? Because people from all around the world come. They leave their homes behind, they leave their families behind, they leave their school, high school, college, infrastructure, social groups, cliques. They leave them all behind. And all of a sudden you find yourself in a new place where you’re, you know, eight hours a day, you’re in a competitive environment.

30:36 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah. Yes.

30:37 – Ali Khawaja
It’s very hard not to get caught up in it. Oh, and I think. I think that, you know, your organization allows for a pause.

30:44 – Manahil Ijaz
Yes.

30:45 – Ali Khawaja
And allows for reflection. And it allows, I love it, as you said it, to do nothing.

30:49 – Manahil Ijaz
Do nothing. I can’t stress that enough. Like, you need to be okay with not doing anything. And I say that with lived experience, having gone through many organizations, I will say there is a kind of competitiveness towards oneself within organizations, which is do more, be better. Next. Organization. Next. Next. Paycheck. Next. This. Next. Achievement. Next. Okay. If this is your salary bracket and this is where people come from, the dream aspect of Dubai. Right. But when you come and live here day, day to day, very soon, if you’re someone who wants a life for themselves that’s more than just, you know, an income, you will realize that, you know, I kind of. You kind of have to make space for that. And that’s what I wanted to create. And it’s important to make space for that. So Dubai Circle is a lot of me, a lot of who I truly am. Because as a moderator, like you said, I have to be as authentic as I am. I’ve shared when I’ve lost jobs, I have changed my career, when I’m making no money, when I’m making money, when things are uncertain. Because this is also something that people don’t like to talk about.

31:53 – Ali Khawaja
The authentic self.

31:54 – Manahil Ijaz
The authentic self.

31:55 – Ali Khawaja
The authentic self. I really wonder sometimes how many people Even know their own authentic self. Because, you know, again, you get caught up with life, you get caught up with achievement, you get caught up with comparisons. Very unhealthy.

32:09 – Manahil Ijaz
It’s very, very. And by the way, I have a different side to my life, which is all marketing and a lot of business stuff and I have to put up a lot for that. Where do I find time for myself to be just me who accepts her failures, who accepts the downfalls. And he’s able to talk about it very openly. It’s, it’s not just for the rest of the people that join. It’s also very much for me and as someone who’s been doing it and also by the way I’ve been doing it, but I had no confidence in me doing this before is because of all the people that joined and appreciated what I was doing and sent me messages like, like, you know, you’ve experienced. I think one of the messages was so deep and I, like, I had this thing of like, I didn’t even realize it was that impactful, you know, just because they were going through something horrific and they just felt so unseen, unheard because they were having some problems and I was just like, it’s the simple things, guys. Sometimes it’s just bad timing. Things are going. A lot of things are happening at the same time and you just want to be around people who are going to be supportive. That’s it. No questions asked. No what was the problem? No digging into anything. Just no judgment. That’s a tough one and that’s very

33:18 – Ali Khawaja
hard to find a space with no judgment is really, really tough.

33:22 – Manahil Ijaz
Really hard.

33:23 – Ali Khawaja
Before I move to the last part of what I want to talk to you about, how is everyone going to find you?

33:28 – Manahil Ijaz
Give me, give me the plug at your StoryQuest. That’s my page on Instagram. Just find me there. The link for Dubai Circle is in my bio. Dubai Circle is on meetup. So you can just quickly join. Join the group on meetup. I try to keep the WhatsApp community very personalized so anybody who is genuinely showing up will be added to the WhatsApp group. If you’re not really wanting to, you just want to browse, join through the meetup group. Attend one or two sessions. See the idea and the goal is to grow it. Obviously at the moment I do it twice a month and hopefully the in person is, is the goal to start creating more personal experience and we actually get to do things together, share stories and maybe build a bigger community combining all the different people that I’ve met. Across the years.

34:13 – Ali Khawaja
No, I love it. I love what you’ve done. One, one thing I noticed and I found very interesting and reflective at the same time. So, you know, I hosted a lot of our meetups back when I did and I was a participant and I have been a participant a lot of yours. I didn’t realize this until I was a participant in yours of the generation gap. Right. So I’m an old guy. You can see my salt and pepper situation right here. I’ve got a kid in college, what about to finish high school. A lot of things that are discussed on your talks made no sense to me. And I’m like, why is that a thing? This is again, I’m not judging. I was thinking in my head, why is that a thing? This person just shared something. Why is that a thing? And then I had to actively, my brain had to actively recognize that this is a thing because of where this person is in their life, in their career, in their financial situation, in the. They’re away from their. My parents, my mom lives 10 minutes away, my mother in law lives 20 minutes away. I have never not had all my family with me. Alhamdulillah. Alhamdulillah. It’s the biggest blessing. But you know, I can never, I can only like get to so much of an understanding that empathy can only honestly carry so much. But how am I supposed to empathize with a young woman in her early 20s, single, from the subcontinent, Muslim, living away from her family, facing societal judgment, facing, you know, all other types of like, you know, eyes on her, worried about her security, worried about her future, worried about. And I wish this was the story of one woman. This is most women that is. And I’m just kind of holding my hand. Yeah, say what? Yeah. And then I was like, oh my. You know. And you know, I did. I haven’t told you this before but. But I wanted to tell you today is that. Thank you so much.

36:15 – Manahil Ijaz
Oh.

36:15 – Ali Khawaja
Because honestly, that’s. I can’t. I could, couldn’t. I can’t and couldn’t never host that. Yeah, right. I could just nod and listen, but that person sing would never be able to feel connected as me hosting versus you hosting.

36:32 – Manahil Ijaz
Aw, right.

36:33 – Ali Khawaja
Both of us could nod our head and say, right. But it would not have connected the same way. So I think, you know, it’s a blessing to have young people like yourself also thinking about this and I think it’s important at all ages and all generations to kind of participate in this. And that realization didn’t click into me. Until I was a participant in one of your talks and I was like, oh, this is interesting. Yeah, this is so interesting how, how it has progressed and how it has grown. And I can see that organic shift happen. And that’s absolutely, I think that’s absolutely wonderful.

37:09 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

37:10 – Ali Khawaja
I saw something else that you posted and. And I’m gonna bring you back for another talk on something else, which is a little bit secret right now.

37:18 – Manahil Ijaz
Okay.

37:19 – Ali Khawaja
We’ll announce it later. But one of the things that I was always taught growing up is the importance of giving back to community. Right. And I see you facilitating that through everything that you do. It’s not, oh, I facilitate community give back and outreach through this one company that I work for or this one CSR initiative. I know you’ve been very active with Fame. I love it. I absolutely love it. I’m like the first one. Like, like, like, like, like. I’m like, that’s what I feel like my mom, you know, I post anything. The first, like, is my mom. So when I see you posting about fame, I’m like, like, I am so the mom here right now. Like, like, like, like, like. So tell me a little bit about fame and then I’ll jump to the next.

37:59 – Manahil Ijaz
Okay, really quickly. Fame is. Oh, my God. Right around the time that mental health AE came out. No. Another very difficult time in my life. Around 2021, I lost someone very close to Fame came around right at that time through the most random of circumstances. Was one of those, like, spammy emails. You know, I had no idea it was a legitimate thing. So the starting of it was so unexpected. I was supposed to help out with this event. First introduction about fame. Fame is basically a, an event showcase that’s been happening for about 11 years. What they do is they showcase people of determination in Dubai through various forms of art forms. So it could be drama, dance, acting, singing, theater. They do a fashion catwalk. They do lots of things. It started off with just a catwalk and a few performances and now it’s full on production, big production. It’s like it’s gone all places at this point. They have one that’s happening in the UK as well. So like, like, they’ve grown, they’ve really gone. I have to have to appreciate the founders, Rosie and Rafi. They’re a family and their daughter has down syndrome. She’s the inspiration behind the brand and they are absolutely the most kindest humans I’ve come across. What they do for the community, the people in Dubai, the parents, it’s very inspirational. First, but Also, they have supported me in contributing to this in all sorts of ways. Whatever I could do, whatever talent I had, I was like, oh, I could do this. I’ll do it. Okay. I could do this. I’ll do it. Yeah, okay. I could do this. I’ll do this. So anything, any talent I had, I was like, okay, I’ll do it. I was, I was helping them with their marketing. I was helping them launch the Talent Hub, which is the kind of like a. A studio, a weekend session where you come and learn these art forms as well. So it’s an inclusive space where all, all people of determination can come learn different types of performing arts talents like dance, musical theater. We’ve done hip hop, we’ve done Bollywood, we’ve done all sorts under the sun. You can see a lot more about it on their website. So I contributed from Event Help support today. I think I don’t have a title. I’m an advocate. That’s like, that’s the only way I can say it. Because I’ve done everything in terms of helping the production, supporting the team members, finding students, finding teachers, hr, admin, everything. I teach dance. I also teach dance there. I have helped. I. I helped some of the hard of hearing students become teachers there by learning sign language so I could, you know, get them involved. So that was part of it. Some of my very good friends are from there. You know, I’ve attended their weddings and things like that. So it’s been about five years now almost. And this place, everybody that knows what I do knows Buffet, Everybody that knows me has probably attended one show. Because if I have not invited you, that’s probably because I don’t like you. If I’m invited you, that means I probably like you.

40:49 – Ali Khawaja
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

40:50 – Manahil Ijaz
So, yeah, they’ve attended that show. It’s such a beautiful space. Towards the end of the show, no eyes are left, unlike wet, like dry. No eyes are left dry, literally, because it’s so much love in one room. There’s so much appreciation, there’s so much acceptance, there’s so much joy for every, every student out there who has been able to bring the confidence up to that stage and do something, you know, they believe in themselves. And of course, the journey. Over five years, I’ve seen students grow. I’ve learned so much from them about being a better human, about accepting different, different ways that people operate, their abilities, the differences. I’ve learned kindness, the way that they support their friends when they’re not doing well that day. The way I’ve come and I was like, not doing great. And I’d come and you just get a bunch of hugs like, we didn’t see you last week.

41:42 – Ali Khawaja
Where were you?

41:44 – Manahil Ijaz
And I’ll be like, I didn’t even think. I was not here. I didn’t come last week.

41:47 – Ali Khawaja
Really.

41:48 – Manahil Ijaz
I forgot about that. It’s. I say it, like, when you come, you experience, and you have to really be vulnerable there to experience it. So fame is something that’s very close to my heart. And hopefully, hopefully we’ll be back and, you know, on it again. I’m always looking for volunteers to come join, grow the community even bigger. So, yeah, that’s. That’s what I do.

42:10 – Ali Khawaja
Well, that’s fantastic. Interesting. I recently saw a post where you were featured amongst a handful of other ventures. Okay. I’m not. I’m not honestly too concerned on the. What I want to know why are

42:25 – Manahil Ijaz
we talking about the same post?

42:27 – Ali Khawaja
So there’s, I think, five or six entrepreneurs contributing some support and services for. For. For free on one of your Insta posts.

42:36 – Manahil Ijaz
Who is it from? Is it from Funny Furry?

42:39 – Ali Khawaja
I think so, yeah.

42:40 – Manahil Ijaz
It’s for the Dubai Circle, so. Yes.

42:43 – Ali Khawaja
So tell me the why first and then tell me what it is.

42:46 – Manahil Ijaz
What it is.

42:47 – Ali Khawaja
Why would you do that?

42:47 – Manahil Ijaz
Why would I do what? Offer it to the people.

42:50 – Ali Khawaja
Why? Why would you do what you did?

42:52 – Manahil Ijaz
Oh, well, I had to. I have to let people know that I’m offering this for the community right now. Are we talking about the current right now?

42:59 – Ali Khawaja
The post I saw with Furry in it? I looked at it.

43:02 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

43:03 – Ali Khawaja
Okay. You know, there’s a bunch of you guys offering services to the community for free.

43:07 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

43:07 – Ali Khawaja
Why?

43:09 – Manahil Ijaz
Because we. We. We all have to grow together. We have to work together to grow and be. Be. When we support each other, we come up as better humans. And I think that’s bigger than anything that I could do right now.

43:22 – Ali Khawaja
Thank you very much. And if you’re listening to the podcast, switch over to the YouTube and look at her face. When I asked her why she looked. Looked. Her face gave me the. Are you stupid? Like.

43:30 – Manahil Ijaz
Like. Yeah, that’s what I was just like,

43:32 – Ali Khawaja
why Dumbass question are you asking me? And this is why I wanted to. To put you on the spot and ask you why.

43:39 – Manahil Ijaz
I’m glad you told me that you’re putting me on the spot because I was like, have I forgot the purpose?

43:43 – Ali Khawaja
If you’re, if you. If you are a type of person who wonder why, you know, people do things like this, or if you are doing something like this and people Come to you and ask you, why are you doing this? Those aren’t the right type of people. Yeah. Please get your shit together.

43:58 – Manahil Ijaz
Yes.

43:59 – Ali Khawaja
Right. So wonderful. I love it. I love it. Now, everyone who’s wondering what the hell is going on, tell us what it is.

44:08 – Manahil Ijaz
Dubai Circle. I’m inviting everybody to join, grow the community, so we have more opportunities to create a space where people can feel seen, you know, share, feel heard, and probably connect with people who care. I’m being very careful of who I add to the community. Obviously, there’s lots of people that are my friends, the ones that have been there throughout all the different circles that we’ve been part of. And they are my core, you know, core people. OGs who are supporting everything that I do, and they, I know, are genuinely the best people in Dubai. Right. From those people, we’ve attracted lots of new people. And honestly, it’s not about how many. Sometimes we have three, sometimes we have four. Sometimes we have just two people. I’ve had a call once, it was just me and another person, and she’s like, oh, it’s just us. And I’m like, it’s okay. We’re still gonna talk because, like, yeah, this is the time. This is our time. So it’s not always about, like, I want to get lots of people, but I want the impact to go beyond that. I want people to know that this exists, that. That, you know, there is no excuses of, oh, I can’t afford to be. Finding friends or finding people who I can talk to is costly. No, it’s not. You can. All you need is time and intention and. And a little bit of belief that it’s possible.

45:21 – Ali Khawaja
I’m going to correct you on that. You need intention and you make the time.

45:25 – Manahil Ijaz
And me. Exactly.

45:26 – Ali Khawaja
Because if you wait for time, you

45:29 – Manahil Ijaz
can be the one to talk about.

45:30 – Ali Khawaja
I’m the. I’m the poster child. The poster child for time.

45:34 – Manahil Ijaz
No, you gotta have the intention.

45:35 – Ali Khawaja
You have to make the time. I think intention’s 100%. It’s been great.

45:41 – Manahil Ijaz
This is so.

45:41 – Ali Khawaja
Thank you. Thank you so much. It feels. Feels very warm. It’s a full circle moment.

45:46 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah, it is.

45:47 – Ali Khawaja
Never in a billion years would. I thought when I was doing, you know, hosting those. Those. Those meetups with Mental Healthy during COVID that you today would be sitting on. I know I would have a podcast.

45:59 – Manahil Ijaz
Yes, exactly.

46:00 – Ali Khawaja
I’m like the last person who should be put in front of a mic.

46:03 – Manahil Ijaz
No, you’re. I love your podcast. I watch all of them. I love them the way you Speak is. Is what makes you are very humble. This warm. It’s so nice. And I’m so glad that I. I’ve been hosting some podcasts myself. To be on the other side is such a. Such a big deal. I’ve never even contemplated all these things up till now. You know, I’ve just been doing it, whatever I’ve been doing.

46:24 – Ali Khawaja
So those of you who’ve caught a handful of her meetups, where I have been, I have been bugging. I gave her a break. I think she’s been wondering, why has Ali forgotten? Ali has not forgotten.

46:35 – Manahil Ijaz
Yeah.

46:35 – Ali Khawaja
I have been chasing this girl so we can open up a cafe. I know, right? Like,

46:44 – Manahil Ijaz
I know. I know. I don’t look him straight in the eye anymore because, you know, I have to look here.

46:49 – Ali Khawaja
So. Because I don’t have any sponsors. This is my tea. You can’t. You can’t hear it, guys, but there’s a tear falling down my face because I don’t have any sponsors on this podcast. I thought it best that me and Manahil open up a cafe focused around, you know, this wellness, this circulismism thingies and have all these lovely people. I mean, if you can’t afford therapy, you can afford karak.

47:14 – Manahil Ijaz
Absolutely.

47:17 – Ali Khawaja
And there’s a whole lot of good cup of coffee can help with. Yeah, not everything, but a whole lot. So how about first stop at our cafe, and then our cafe can sponsor my podcast. Did you see what I did there? All right, man. Thank you ever so much for coming. This has been absolutely lovely. Always great to have conversation with you. And now it’s official.

47:39 – Manahil Ijaz
I can’t wait. This is so good. Thank you so much. I’m so glad that we made this happen. I had absolutely no expectation of what to. What to say. I just knew it’s you. And I was like, we’ll figure it out.

47:49 – Ali Khawaja
Exactly. We will figure it out.

47:51 – Manahil Ijaz
So it is as. As natural and as authentic as it gets. There’s no scripts.

47:55 – Ali Khawaja
Perfect. Perfect. All right, guys, thank you very much for listening. I will, as usual, put all of her links and thingies wherever they need to go on whichever channel you’re watching this on one. See you on the next one.